From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD, FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Thread: a07f3367d7,4d3e59455e947c5e X-Google-Attributes: gida07f3367d7,public,usenet X-Google-NewGroupId: yes X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,UTF8 Received: by 10.180.98.234 with SMTP id el10mr172236wib.3.1344572489010; Thu, 09 Aug 2012 21:21:29 -0700 (PDT) Path: n2ni53951140win.0!nntp.google.com!volia.net!news2.volia.net!feed-A.news.volia.net!border1.nntp.ams2.giganews.com!border3.nntp.ams.giganews.com!border1.nntp.ams.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!feed.xsnews.nl!border-2.ams.xsnews.nl!news.panservice.it!aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Vasiliy Molostov" Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Suitability of Ada as a general-purpose language Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2012 06:48:48 +0400 Organization: None Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: Xw13RWgh8yxgPSv0x3+H9w.user.speranza.aioe.org Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org User-Agent: Opera Mail/12.01 (Linux) X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.8.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable Date: 2012-08-04T06:48:48+04:00 List-Id: Yannick Duch=C3=AAne (Hibou57) =D0=BF=D0=B8=D1= =81=D0=B0=D0=BB(=D0=B0) =D0=B2 =D1=81=D0=B2=D0=BE=D1=91=D0=BC = =D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D1=8C=D0=BC=D0=B5 Fri, 03 Aug 2012 23:21:15 +0400: > Le Tue, 31 Jul 2012 06:19:58 +0200, Randy Brukardt = > a =C3=A9crit: > Does that mean that =E2=80=9Cnot decently sized=E2=80=9D applications = are not Ada's = > target? Ada main target are processors (hardware), while typical "Hello world" = rely on console output and/or libc stdout file operations (e.g. implies = = file system operations, including mapping of errno to exceptions and the= = rest), and therefore it is for testing something about related to high = level I/O primitives and are environment dependent. So, the test to = establish and compare sizes of "Hello World" executable is dumb (due to = = irrelevant conclusions about result). To get the benefit on image size a developer can restrict compiler with = = usual basic operations, e.g. to build "The Hello World program here, as = a = place=E2=80=91holder for tiny applications" a developer can import I/O o= perations = similar to competitors (since test environment is the same, I suppose), = = e.g. using puts(3) from libc instead of ada.text_io.put_line. In this ca= se = you might want to discover that these image sizes are closest to be = similar to ones in C. With more ada related restrictions applied to ada = = compiler you can get image sizes even smaller than you can imagine. How much Ada with gcc (e.g. GNAT) can take in image size was tested by = Stephane Carrez (see http://www.vacs.fr/wiki/index.php/VACS:Projects:Software:Gel - "GNU= = Ada compiler works for creation of a 256 bytes program"), obviously clea= r. Regarding to Janus, on some targets its run-time is based on direct = interfacing with environment, and the resulting image size can be even = smaller than the same in C (where libc acts as an interface to the same = = environment). As you can see, ada is just more flexible than C (or any other competito= r) = in building images of any desired/required size, and even makes this = comparison incorrect and meaningless. -- = =D0=9D=D0=B0=D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=81=D0=B0=D0=BD=D0=BE =D0=B2 =D0=BF=D0=BE=D1=87= =D1=82=D0=BE=D0=B2=D0=BE=D0=BC =D0=BA=D0=BB=D0=B8=D0=B5=D0=BD=D1=82=D0=B5= =D0=B1=D1=80=D0=B0=D1=83=D0=B7=D0=B5=D1=80=D0=B0 Opera: http://www.oper= a.com/mail/