From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Thread: 103376,508516c114ade8e1 X-Google-NewGroupId: yes X-Google-Attributes: gida07f3367d7,domainid0,public,usenet X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,UTF8 Received: by 10.68.213.68 with SMTP id nq4mr1471264pbc.2.1328796327390; Thu, 09 Feb 2012 06:05:27 -0800 (PST) Path: wr5ni5092pbc.0!nntp.google.com!news1.google.com!goblin2!goblin.stu.neva.ru!aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?Yannick_Duch=C3=AAne_=28Hibou57?= =?utf-8?Q?=29?= Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: ada without ada libraries? Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2012 15:05:25 +0100 Organization: Ada @ Home Message-ID: References: <82mx8tttx7.fsf@stephe-leake.org> <120f2efrm73fc$.mi1m9kwbbkes$.dlg@40tude.net> <1o71uiwmoiunb.bkjz8c54rcbl.dlg@40tude.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: fLpVuVo6AZx9Xe9YP2dkPw.user.speranza.aioe.org Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org User-Agent: Opera Mail/11.61 (Linux) X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.8.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable Date: 2012-02-09T15:05:25+01:00 List-Id: Le Thu, 09 Feb 2012 12:08:37 +0100, Gautier write-only = a =C3=A9crit: > Interesting debate: theoretically, I would support fully Yannick. > But when looking at my practice the strange fact is that the only DSL > I'm using is command-line interpreter scripts. On my own side, I sometime play with a Prolog interpreter of mine = (designed in SML), more often with SML, commonly with SQL and XSLT and I= = was an M2T (Model To Text, which is an OMG language used in conjunction = = with UML) user, and I am seasoned with RenderMan shader language (*). Ju= st = that to be honest, I believe M2T and XSLT was an error, and Prolog progr= am = would have been a better choice (I am placing all of Ada, Prolog and SML= = at the same level, so for many things, to me, Prolog is the language of = = choice just like Ada is for some other things). (*) Just to cite languages with execution phase. There are also many DSL= = in data representation area, what ever what data can means, but these ar= e = not relevant to mention here, as Ada has nothing to do with it. Oh well,= = may be there is finally one worth to note here, which is the one = AdaControl use :-P > I can do everything else straight in Ada, even: > 1) on-purpose data conversions, sorting, aggregation (in one case, > replacing a R script; the Ada version ran hundred times faster and > solved a data modelling bottleneck for several people) No need for a DSL here, and Ada is indeed the best choice. > 2) 3D models (instead of VRML or MAXScript) Depend what you do (3D means nothing alone). > 3) random language generators (Ada is used there in a purely > functional way) I don't understand. > 4) recompression of Zip archives by calling different Zippers and > taking the best compression ratio No need for a DSL, so Ada is OK here too. Avoid confusion: a DSL is not the first = lossy=E2=80=91unsafe=E2=80=91unreadable=E2=80=91unmaintainable language = with no added value you = encounter. A DSL is not a toy language launched by who=E2=80=91know=E2=80= =91who in a = search of celebrity, so don't think about these when you read the word = =E2=80=9CDSL=E2=80=9D somewhere. Some are good, some are bad. The multip= le so = called=E2=80=91scripting languages everywhere are not DSL, they are just= = symptomatic of unfinished software which every user is supposed to = fix/finish him/herself or symptomatic of some bad experience with = compilation process or symptomatic of =E2=80=9Cevery thing must be free = as bear = and what's free as bear here must run everywhere to get it free as bear = = everywhere=E2=80=9D. Except for some case, most DSL are confidential and= do not = take part of the =E2=80=9Chip=E2=80=9D (although the concept of DSL is a= bit buzzy since = some years, but tha's DSL as a whole, not one or another in particular).= Well, all of that to say if one expect to use Ada for extremely = everything, he/she gonna encounter some disillusions. -- = =E2=80=9CSyntactic sugar causes cancer of the semi-colons.=E2=80=9D [1] =E2=80=9CStructured Programming supports the law of the excluded muddle.= =E2=80=9D [1] [1]: Epigrams on Programming =E2=80=94 Alan J. =E2=80=94 P. Yale Univers= ity