From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,1116ece181be1aea X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2003-09-15 02:09:33 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!lnsnews.lns.cornell.edu!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!ngpeer.news.aol.com!newsfeed1!bredband!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!tar-alcarin.cbb-automation.DE!not-for-mail From: Dmitry A. Kazakov Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Is the Writing on the Wall for Ada? Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:17:21 +0200 Message-ID: References: <3F5CF12A.6060608@attbi.com> <3F5F76EC.8020807@attbi.com> <3F60EAB7.9030404@attbi.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: tar-alcarin.cbb-automation.de (212.79.194.111) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1063616971 26103756 212.79.194.111 (16 [77047]) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:42513 Date: 2003-09-15T11:17:21+02:00 List-Id: On 12 Sep 2003 19:23:11 -0700, aek@vib.usr.pu.ru (Alexander Kopilovitch) wrote: >That even was not programming as such, it was design stage, and my job was >to design a part of the system and write the design documents. I wrote the >documents, and then nightmare began. They said that they like my writing >style but disagree with the design approach. Well, we discussed the issues, >and then I reworked the design. With the same result. After 3rd or 4th >iteration I began to hate them (first time in my life... I never knew what is >a true personal hate before that). You have rammed at "consensus culture" wide spread in the northern areas of EU. The idea is that all problems have to solved through a consensus, but of course in the way the leading persons decide. (:-)) So they never tell you what and how, otherwise it would violate the consensus rules! You have to *guess* the boss' idea and enthusiastically roll it up and thus reach the consensus. >When all that unpleasant adventure ended and I relaxed, I concluded that >they really have no need in any particular design, they wanted some process, >not a result (at least at that stage). My fault was that I did not recognize >that (rather usual) thing. And that was exactly the cultural difference >that made me blind - I misinterpeted obvious symptoms, and went into >false interpretation quite deeply. For example, I took many of their phrases >at face value (or almost that way) just because those phrases were said in >foreign language and by good-looking persons... I could never make such >mistakes with the people that belong to my native culture. Which is an army-like one. The boss does not care about any consensus: "Ich bin der Boss, du bist nix!". Russian equivalent is "I am the boss you are a fool". It makes things much easier, but it is so awfully undemocratic... (:-)) Alas to EU and Russia, neither of the mentioned "cultures" work good in science and software developing. I cannot tell which one Americans or Asians use. --- Regards, Dmitry Kazakov www.dmitry-kazakov.de