From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,INVALID_MSGID autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: ffc1e,a48e5b99425d742a X-Google-Attributes: gidffc1e,public X-Google-Thread: fac41,a48e5b99425d742a X-Google-Attributes: gidfac41,public X-Google-Thread: f43e6,a48e5b99425d742a X-Google-Attributes: gidf43e6,public X-Google-Thread: 1108a1,5da92b52f6784b63 X-Google-Attributes: gid1108a1,public X-Google-Thread: 107d55,a48e5b99425d742a X-Google-Attributes: gid107d55,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,a48e5b99425d742a X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public From: milkweed@plainfield.bypass.com (Anders Pytte) Subject: Re: Papers on the Ariane-5 crash and Design by Contract Date: 1997/03/18 Message-ID: #1/1 X-Deja-AN: 226428997 References: <332B5495.167EB0E7@eiffel.com> <332D113B.4A64@calfp.co.uk> Organization: Milkweed Software Newsgroups: comp.lang.eiffel,comp.object,comp.software-eng,comp.programming.threads,comp.lang.ada,comp.lang.java.tech Date: 1997-03-18T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: In article , nouser@nohost.nodomain (Thomas) wrote: > In article <332D113B.4A64@calfp.co.uk> Nick Leaton writes: > > The point about culture and assertions is an interesting one. I have > moved to a company that uses Eiffel. Initially I was very sceptical > about assertions, for the same reason you are, that I don't see people > using them, or that they remove them when the release the code. > > I'm not at all sceptical about assertions. I use them liberally. > I'm sceptical about the claim that Eiffel assertions would have > much of a difference in this case. > > Incidentally, systems that provide extensive support for "structured" > assertions exist both for Ada and C++ (in addition to the > straightforward support that exists in the base languages). > > Thomas. I concur. In earlier threads I pushed the point that choice of language is not as significant as good coding practices. Meyers et. al. are to be congratulated on creating a language that incorporates as much good coding practices as may be possible into a language. But they lose credibility by asserting that language can enforce good coding practices. I have learned to use assertion exhaustively in C++, even though I do not work on critical products. I get the point about auto-extraction of assertions into documentation, but in the end most coders feel more secure looking at code itself (documentation may be incomplete or out of date). There is no substitute for self documenting code, and for that purpose assertion is priceless. I expect Meyers to push his own products, but to imply the Ariane-5 crash was caused by poor choice of programming language seems out of step with his otherwise impeccable manners. Anders. -- Anders Pytte Milkweed Software RR 1, Box 227 Voice: (802) 472-5142 Cabot VT 05647 Internet: milkweed@plainfield.bypass.com