From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Path: eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!mx02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!gegeweb.org!news.ecp.fr!news.jacob-sparre.dk!loke.jacob-sparre.dk!pnx.dk!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Randy Brukardt" Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: {Pre,Post}conditions and side effects Date: Fri, 8 May 2015 18:24:28 -0500 Organization: Jacob Sparre Andersen Research & Innovation Message-ID: References: <2430252d-52a1-4609-acef-684864e6ca0c@googlegroups.com> <0a718b39-ebd3-4ab5-912e-f1229679dacc@googlegroups.com> <9ee5e186-5aaa-4d07-9490-0f9fdbb5ca18@googlegroups.com> <87tww5296f.fsf@adaheads.sparre-andersen.dk> <871tj9dp5b.fsf@theworld.com> <121ytg16vbxsk$.18dxo1h7daxty.dlg@40tude.net> <12gipcoheoucz.15ckvrgi11h3a.dlg@40tude.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: rrsoftware.com X-Trace: loke.gir.dk 1431127469 29829 24.196.82.226 (8 May 2015 23:24:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@jacob-sparre.dk NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 8 May 2015 23:24:29 +0000 (UTC) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 Xref: news.eternal-september.org comp.lang.ada:25781 Date: 2015-05-08T18:24:28-05:00 List-Id: "Dmitry A. Kazakov" wrote in message news:12gipcoheoucz.15ckvrgi11h3a.dlg@40tude.net... > On Thu, 7 May 2015 14:01:34 -0500, Randy Brukardt wrote: ... > It is an infinite recursion, which is why it is meaningless to define > correctness, as you seem do, as some absolute. There cannot be such thing. I totally agree; it doesn't make any sense to talk about a "correct program", or for that matter, a correct part of a program. It can only be correct in a particular environment with particular code generated. The only tool that could possibly know enough of this is the compiler -- no other tool could come close. ... > The point is that these are fundamentally different things. Correctness is > outside. Behavior is inside. The only thing that matters is behavior. I care about correctness of the behavior (which for Ada, mainly boils down to how and when exceptions are possible). There is no such thing as a correct program (or part of a program) outside of its behavior. It's madness to even talk about it. Programming languages aren't defined well enough for the concept to be remotely meaningful. Randy.