From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,be23df8e7e275d73 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2001-07-17 13:53:30 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!newsfeed.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!fr.usenet-edu.net!usenet-edu.net!enst!enst.fr!not-for-mail From: "Beard, Frank" Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: RE: An Ada IDE and discussions Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 16:51:38 -0400 Organization: ENST, France Sender: comp.lang.ada-admin@ada.eu.org Message-ID: Reply-To: comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: marvin.enst.fr Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Trace: avanie.enst.fr 995403208 43183 137.194.161.2 (17 Jul 2001 20:53:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@enst.fr NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 20:53:28 +0000 (UTC) To: "'comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org'" Return-Path: X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Errors-To: comp.lang.ada-admin@ada.eu.org X-BeenThere: comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.4 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: comp.lang.ada mail<->news gateway List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Errors-To: comp.lang.ada-admin@ada.eu.org X-BeenThere: comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:10099 Date: 2001-07-17T16:51:38-04:00 I saw a demo, can't remember the product name, probably six or seven years ago, where the GUI interface was developed on a UNIX platform. The vendor also had a set of libraries for Windows. On Unix, it looked like Motif, but when it was linked on Windows it looked like Windows. Granted the demo only had some drop down menus, a listbox or two, and some buttons. Maybe someone will remember the product. The problem for us was when the decision was made to port to Windows they took away our Unix boxes. The GUI builder only worked on Unix, but could be linked with their Windows libraries to have a Windows product. So, it sounded ideal if you needed your product running in both environments; otherwise, Windows users would have no reason to go out and buy a Unix box just to do the user interface. I know one of the goals of Screen Machine, by Objective Interfaces, was to allow creation of a highly portable UI across various OS's. Anybody know about that product? And whatever happened to it? There was another GUI builder product (I think) by Frontier Technologies that I think was targeting both Unix and Windows (off of Unix for five years and forget everything). Anybody know about that product? We were using Bluestone on HP-UX, but they didn't have anything for Windows at the time, so we dropped interest in them. It seems like GtkAda could take the same approach as the first product, or Screen Machine, so the product looks like a native application depending on where it's linked. Frank -----Original Message----- From: Marin David Condic [mailto:marin.condic.auntie.spam@pacemicro.com] Win32 programming *is* a standard of sorts that is widely used - millions of people have it & use it daily. Hence ignoring that market is not wise. But remember that the various flavors of Unix are *also* a kind of a standard that is used by millions of people daily. Operating in that environment is very important as well. Ada is (at least in part) about standards *and* portability. Its nice to be able to build code on one machine and have it compile/run on another machine with a very different architecture. To this end, I applaud GtkAda - it is trying to provide a common GUI building environment across two very different platforms & from what I gather is succeeding at that. It is hard to merge the two systems without settling on *some* style that is going to clash with the other style. Is it wise to adopt the Unix/Motif look-&-feel and try to force Windows into that mode? Or should the Windows L&F have been forced onto the Unix side? Take your pick - some substantial part of the computer programming & using weorld is going to be unhappy. I guess that since the GtkAda started from the Gtk/Unix world, the choice got made to move that style to the Windows side. Should they have pitched the style & started fresh? They might not have had a product at all if they did. Certainly, they'd face competition from Claw and others. It might have become a "me too!" product that had no special niche. I won't gripe about GtkAda not fitting the paradigm I'm used to. I'd consider it as a potential tool if a) I was developing in Ada and b) I needed portability between Unix & Windows. (If I was Windows only, I'd want something that did the L&F of Windows rather than a compromise.) One could also evaluate the possibility of using Ada and Java to produce systems that were portable - and even Internet ready, so there are alternatives. The decision would come down to a comparison of environments & features & price and so on. The minute you remove constraint A (develop in Ada) the choices expand a lot. Hence if the objective is to build apps that are portable between Unix and Windows, GtkAda has to stack up favorably against a lot of other players. So the question for the developers is "What market(s) are you shooting for and how do you stack up against the competitors in that market?" MDC -- Marin David Condic Senior Software Engineer Pace Micro Technology Americas www.pacemicro.com Enabling the digital revolution e-Mail: marin.condic@pacemicro.com Web: http://www.mcondic.com/