From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,LOTS_OF_MONEY, MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,912597791e813f68 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2003-01-19 11:08:27 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!cyclone.bc.net!skynet.be!skynet.be!freenix!enst.fr!not-for-mail From: "Robert C. Leif" Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: RE: advantages or disadvantages of ADA over pascal or modula Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 11:08:15 -0800 Organization: ENST, France Message-ID: Reply-To: "comp.lang.ada mail to news gateway" NNTP-Posting-Host: marvin.enst.fr Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: avanie.enst.fr 1043003306 66038 137.194.161.2 (19 Jan 2003 19:08:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@enst.fr NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 19:08:26 +0000 (UTC) To: "'comp.lang.ada mail to news gateway'" Return-Path: X-Envelope-From: rleif@rleif.com X-Envelope-To: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list List-Id: comp.lang.ada mail to news gateway List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:33216 Date: 2003-01-19T11:08:15-08:00 Since Ada can now be compiled to the ECMA intermediate language, which = is being used by Microsoft, there is a significant incentive for chip manufacturers to host the ECMA intermediate language. Consequently, they will have inadvertently facilitated the hosting of Ada on their chips. For those who prefer operating systems other than those produced by Microsoft, the code generator for the ECMA intermediate language should = be or could be hosted on systems, such as Linux. Since the equivalent of this was done with UCSD Pascal, it is absolutely = not a new idea. Bob Leif -----Original Message----- From: Marin David Condic [mailto:mcondic.auntie.spam@acm.org]=20 Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 8:19 AM To: comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org Subject: Re: advantages or disadvantages of ADA over pascal or modula I'm basically with you here, but keep in mind a couple of things. One is that from a manager's view of things, "Language A" at a cost of $20 = versus "Language B" at a cost of $20,000 starts looking like a no-brainer. "Language B" had better have some real hard evidence that it is $19,980 better than "L:anguage A" or the manager is just seeing it as pissing = away his budget needlessly. Hence Ada needs to come in at a price that is competitive with other languages (often "free" in the microcontroller = world because they throw it in with a development board - O.K., its bundled so = not really "free" but when the development board is $250..$500, you can = barely see any real cost there.) The other thing being that the prior poster had a valid point about = using HC11/HC12 or 8051 processors. Ada might be the most wonderful thing to = come along since shirt pockets, but can you get Ada for some of these small microcontrollers? At any price? And if so, does it come with all of the spiffy development tools one might get by using the manufacturer's = supplied development kit? (And I'd like to avoid the inevitable observations = about getting an Ada compiler to generate C code and then use the = manufacturer's development kit. It tends to be a no-sale since you've got to add layers = of stuff and additional costs on top of what usually amounts to being a = small project anyway. Even if it costs me some productivity and I have to = spend twice as long in testing to insure product reliability, I'm still = probably better off than spending lots of money and valuable time up front = cobbling together the Ada and C compilers with unproven and dubious results.) I'm a fan of Ada and I'd like to see it used in embedded microcontroller projects. I think that long term it would be a benefit to such projects, = But until Ada development kits are available at competitive prices and = they're just sitting there on the board manufacturer's development kit, its a = really tough sale to make. Perhaps if someone were to design a nice little microcontroller board and targeted Gnat to it & provided all the tools needed, that might be a way to gain some acceptance of Ada in that = world. I just don't see anyone jumping up and down waving their hands and saying = "Oh Please! Let *me* do that job!!!" :-) MDC -- =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Marin David Condic I work for: http://www.belcan.com/ My project is: http://www.jast.mil/ Send Replies To: m c o n d i c @ a c m . o r g "I'd trade it all for just a little more" -- Charles Montgomery Burns, [4F10] =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D John R. Strohm wrote in message news:C2E97C094C00112D.3534546977D61EFF.8CD62D3596DEEE44@lp.airnews.net...= > > In other words, trying to save a few pennies on software development > toolsets is sheer idiocy. > >