From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,5cb36983754f64da X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2004-04-21 18:22:35 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!news.glorb.com!news.cs.univ-paris8.fr!proxad.net!usenet-fr.net!enst.fr!melchior!cuivre.fr.eu.org!melchior.frmug.org!not-for-mail From: "Alexander E. Kopilovich" Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: No call for Ada (was Re: Announcing new scripting/prototyping language) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 05:16:02 +0400 (MSD) Organization: Cuivre, Argent, Or Message-ID: References: <1082556126.182066@master.nyc.kbcfp.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lovelace.ada-france.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: melchior.cuivre.fr.eu.org 1082596889 35199 212.85.156.195 (22 Apr 2004 01:21:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@melchior.cuivre.fr.eu.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 01:21:29 +0000 (UTC) To: comp.lang.ada@ada-france.org Return-Path: In-Reply-To: <1082556126.182066@master.nyc.kbcfp.com>; from Hyman Rosen at Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:02:06 -0400 X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.44 MSDOS] X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p7 (Debian) at ada-france.org X-BeenThere: comp.lang.ada@ada-france.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 Precedence: list List-Id: "Gateway to the comp.lang.ada Usenet newsgroup" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:7395 Date: 2004-04-22T05:16:02+04:00 Hyman Rosen wrote: >C++ templates are neither difficult >to understand nor to use, any more than Ada is. Yes, both aren't difficult to use, but both are quite difficult to understand and to use properly in even slightly non-trivial cases. > Just like Ada, it helps if you learn about them correctly. And this is also true, but it is not easy to learn about them correctly. In fact, I think that majority of working programmers aren't able to do so. And those who are able to learn are, as a rule, deprived from a condensed explanation of the essentials, short explanation of the fundamental approach. Personally, Ada generics were murky for me before I read one message from Bob Duff (I think it was in Ada-Comment) where the essential (for me) truth was said explicitly and in short words. Similarly, C++ templates were murky for me until just about one or two weeks ago, before I read here in c.l.a. your (yes, yours -:) short explanation on that matter. I'm not saying that in both cases the needed explanations are missing in the well-known books - I don't know that, perhaps they are there. But anyway it is too hard to find and recognize their importance in those thick books, even if they are present there. And I'm not saying that these short explanations are enough, not at all, the books still must be read, but with those prior explanations this reading will be (mostly) guided unfolding and refinement, and not a mining followed by attempts to construct something usable from obtained pieces. Alexander Kopilovich aek@vib.usr.pu.ru Saint-Petersburg Russia