From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,5cb36983754f64da X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2004-02-07 13:11:53 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!nnx.oleane.net!oleane!teaser.fr!enst.fr!melchior!cuivre.fr.eu.org!melchior.frmug.org!not-for-mail From: "Alexandre E. Kopilovitch" Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: No call for Ada (was Re: Announcing new scripting/prototyping language) Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 00:03:25 +0300 (MSK) Organization: Cuivre, Argent, Or Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lovelace.ada-france.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: melchior.cuivre.fr.eu.org 1076187813 48349 80.67.180.195 (7 Feb 2004 21:03:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@melchior.cuivre.fr.eu.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 21:03:33 +0000 (UTC) To: comp.lang.ada@ada-france.org Return-Path: In-Reply-To: ; from Ludovic Brenta at 07 Feb 2004 14:00:35 +0100 X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.44 MSDOS] X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p5 (Debian) at ada-france.org X-BeenThere: comp.lang.ada@ada-france.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3 Precedence: list List-Id: Gateway to the comp.lang.ada Usenet newsgroup List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:5323 Date: 2004-02-08T00:03:25+03:00 Ludovic Brenta wrote: > The third type is what I would call the "zen master" type of > languages. They treat you like an apprentice, slapping you on the > hand each time you make a small mistake, and they scorn at you for > choosing the quick and easy path -- which leads to the Dark Side. If > you accept their teachings, you quickly become a Master yourself. No, this way you have a little chance for that. Following this way you'll most probably become more or less respectable member of the guild, a master, but not Master. Just because you are deprived from Dark Side, and every Master must know it from good personal experience (some manage to get it from their own imagination, but this is very rare case, as it requires exceptionally strong imagination abilities... and exceptional abilities for keeping mental balance as well). > If you rebel against them, Actually you must rebel against something if you want to achieve anything significantly above average. Surely, it isn't necessary to rebel against your master personally, but a rebellion against some widespread and respectable opinion is almost inevitable for such a "graduation". > you will never achieve Enlightenment and will always produce bugs. You will produce bugs anyway, with or without Enlightenment -;) . And I'm afraid that in this your description Enlightenment doesn't seem different from Doctrine -;) . > The "zen master" languages are Pascal, Modula, > Oberon, and, master of masters, Ada. I don't think so - there is vast amount of various "zens" and "zen masters" for C++, Java... Smalltalk, Lisp, etc (even COBOL had at least one "zen", and I remember that it was a good one). And all those "zen masters" feel themselves quite comfortable with their accustomed languages. Alexander Kopilovitch aek@vib.usr.pu.ru Saint-Petersburg Russia