From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Thread: 103376,42490cad53ee37fa X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit Path: g2news1.google.com!news1.google.com!proxad.net!usenet-fr.net!enst.fr!melchior!cuivre.fr.eu.org!melchior.frmug.org!not-for-mail From: "Alexander E. Kopilovich" Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: NOACE- End of the road for Ada? Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 03:34:19 +0300 (MSK) Organization: Cuivre, Argent, Or Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lovelace.ada-france.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: melchior.cuivre.fr.eu.org 1110846982 49535 212.85.156.195 (15 Mar 2005 00:36:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@melchior.cuivre.fr.eu.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 00:36:22 +0000 (UTC) To: comp.lang.ada@ada-france.org Return-Path: In-Reply-To: ; from Marin David Condic at Mon, 14 Mar 2005 13:42:42 GMT X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.45 MSDOS] X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at ada-france.org X-BeenThere: comp.lang.ada@ada-france.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Gateway to the comp.lang.ada Usenet newsgroup" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Original-Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: g2news1.google.com comp.lang.ada:9417 Date: 2005-03-15T03:34:19+03:00 Marin David Condic wrote: > ... letting your competition define the whole game. I like this expression, it is quite good description of a widespread sin. > One can argue endlessly about the relative value of this or that > syntactic feature, but think about it this way: If you change Ada syntax > enough to make it look like the "more popular girl" (Java) then it just > becomes indistinguishable from the more popular girl - except it doesn't > have her name. For the folks who love Java, Ada can never be enough like > Java and attempting to make it so will only thwart more productive > efforts. I think Ada just has to say "What do *I* want to be good at?" > and concentrate on being the best addresser of that particular market. That's all right, but this metaphor can be explored another way. Ada can think: "What are the features that people really appreciate in Java? Perhaps I have some of them no less than Java and possibly even better, but I just do not pay enough attention to them and do not exhibit them properly. And perhaps accentuation of those my features is not harmful at all for my integrity and style, but is just necessary adaptation to today's enviromnent, needs and viewpoints." (One feature of this kind comes immediately - it is area of tasking and synchronization.) > ... If Ada wants to > get introspective about what might make her better for this market, I'd > think she would have to concentrate on stuff external to the language > proper - like libraries and development tools. Keeping my eye on Ada over 10 years as a distant observer, I gradually became convinced that Ada is not (and can't be) particularly good for libraries that are intended for general use. And that contrary to the popular (here in CLA) opinion, it isn't native Ada libraries that can attract users to Ada. First, there will be much more C++ and Java libraries anyway. Second, quite often the design of application or its components, and not availability of libraries is the critical thing. While it is often not too expensive to write a library for specific purpose or provide bindings to existing C/C++ library, the proper design with Ada may be a challenging task. Ada provide many opportunities for design, but if one isn't a skilled and experienced Ada programmer and the application isn't too simple, s/he has little chances to make best use of those opportunities. So it appears that one of the most interesting and powerful sides of Ada often isn't benefit user, and even becomes a burden instead of being an aid. Therefore I think that what is needed is not libraries, but open source generic whole applications or generic complex components, which provide reusable designs. (But please don't tell me about Design Patterns - they do not demonstrate _entire_ design... like promoting saints, but not faith.) As for development tools... well, just curious, which tools except IDE, GUI builders and test tools like AUnit you imagine for Ada? That is, do you imagine any development tools that aren't just adapted for Ada variants of tools long used for, say, C++?