From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,88ed72d98e6b3457 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2003-11-02 19:48:59 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news2.google.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!oleane.net!oleane!wanadoo.fr!freenix!enst.fr!melchior!cuivre.fr.eu.org!melchior.frmug.org!not-for-mail From: "Alexandre E. Kopilovitch" Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Standard Library Interest? Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 06:58:15 +0300 (MSK) Organization: Cuivre, Argent, Or Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lovelace.ada-france.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: melchior.cuivre.fr.eu.org 1067831338 23227 80.67.180.195 (3 Nov 2003 03:48:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@melchior.cuivre.fr.eu.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 03:48:58 +0000 (UTC) To: comp.lang.ada@ada-france.org Return-Path: In-Reply-To: ; from "Robert I. Eachus" at Sun, 02 Nov 2003 20:07:17 -0500 X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.44 MSDOS] X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p5 (Debian) at ada-france.org X-BeenThere: comp.lang.ada@ada-france.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list List-Id: Gateway to the comp.lang.ada Usenet newsgroup List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:1944 Date: 2003-11-03T06:58:15+03:00 Robert I. Eachus > Some years ago, I worked out the right solution--form an Ada software > engineering guild, or for that matter a software engineer's guild, and > one of the functions of the guild would be to provide and support a > library that could be used by its members. (Including corporate > members.) If you could get the system to insist on only using guild > licensed programmers in the correct disciplines, and guild software > engineers on certain types of projects this would finally give software > engineering a realistic model to work with. I wonder, why those past model and past term? It is simply inadequate to many current realities (first of all, numbers matter - you can't simply scale the guild model). Why not propose a suitable curriculum instead? Include enough engineering disciplines you think important, and you certainly will deter those who aren't oriented towards engineering. In fact, the main difference between a curriculum and guild is that a curriculum is explicit and public, while guild principles, customs and directions are implicit and concealed. > Anyone who really is a software engineer not a glorified programmer, > knows that the only way software engineering is taught is not in school > but by mentoring. I wonder, why do you think that mentoring is more important in software engineering than in all classical sciences? Or in professions like doctors and lawyers? There is enough complexity, and safety requirements are often high enough. And no one of them is organized in guilds now. Even those "social" sciences that until recently traditionally have competing "schools" (which somehow resemble guilds) are gradually leaving that way. Alexander Kopilovitch aek@vib.usr.pu.ru Saint-Petersburg Russia