From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,5cb36983754f64da X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2004-04-08 09:52:26 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!news.glorb.com!news.cs.univ-paris8.fr!proxad.net!usenet-fr.net!enst.fr!melchior!cuivre.fr.eu.org!melchior.frmug.org!not-for-mail From: "Alexander E. Kopilovich" Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: No call for Ada (was Re: Announcing new scripting/prototyping language) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 20:49:26 +0400 (MSD) Organization: Cuivre, Argent, Or Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lovelace.ada-france.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: melchior.cuivre.fr.eu.org 1081443022 5347 212.85.156.195 (8 Apr 2004 16:50:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@melchior.cuivre.fr.eu.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:50:22 +0000 (UTC) To: comp.lang.ada@ada-france.org Return-Path: In-Reply-To: ; from "Dmitry A. Kazakov" at Thu, 08 Apr 2004 11:59:22 +0200 X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.44 MSDOS] X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p7 (Debian) at ada-france.org X-BeenThere: comp.lang.ada@ada-france.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 Precedence: list List-Id: "Gateway to the comp.lang.ada Usenet newsgroup" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:6853 Date: 2004-04-08T20:49:26+04:00 Dmitry A. Kazakov wrote: > > Did you also lost faith in Pythagorean theorem after studying > > non-Euclidian and differential geometries? I mean, do you believe now that > > relation between sides of a triangle depends upon luck only? -:) > > Science is not a subject of belief! (:-)) It is, and always was. Do you, for example, believe in intermediate boson? Or do you believe that Universe is 7-dimensional? Or do you believe in Big Bang and in some estimate of the age of Universe (either from modern physics or from the Bible)? Well, you may think that Pythagorean theorem is true for some ideal triangles, but do you believe that real triangles, which you can meet in nature, resemble those ideal ones? > > At least one major technical issue is relevant - it is anticipated > > lifecycle for a product. > > ... only if that is shorter than the "lifecycle" of a manager. So the problem is that too many managers prefer *own* short lifecycles, that is, they are oriented to frequent change of their job. > Small noise on the input produces an enormous random output. All that is > summarized by one short word *luck*. Luckism is a good cover for various calculated clandestine actions. > >> > There was real matter that time - dot-coms were booming and there was > >> > widespread strong feeling about the need of easily distributable > >> > specialized clients for online shopping. > > > >> Mmm, that was 3 years or so later. > > > > 3 years or so later you could read about that in newspapers. Application > > programmers felt, knew and discussed that need at least 1 year before > > emergence of Java. > > Yes, and this supports "Luckism"! Not at all. > They felt, discussed and what was the result? Hm, it seems that you have too much contacts with managers - that you phrase sounds too familiar -;) . > Could fathers of cybernetics imagine VisualBasic crowning their efforts? > (:-)) Why not? They were quite competent in stochastic matters and behaviour of large systems. > UNIX was a great set-back in OS architecture, design and ideology. Although I am not a fan of Unix (actually I have very few personal contacts with it and most of my info about it comes from friends and from reading of assorted sources) nevertheless I don't see why it should be called as a setback and even great setback. Unix is (in my view) just based on another paradigm, which is still not properly abstracted and formalized: Unix is tools-oriented OS, while competitors (those times) - such OSes as IBM's OS/370 (and VM/370), DEC's RSX and then VMS were dispatcher-oriented. In other words the latter gave more direct powers and convenience to system administrator while Unix gave more powers and convenience to users and especially to power users (and superusers -:) . Well, if you wish to compare Unix not with OS/370, RSX and VMS but with Multics then I can say only that Multics never existed in big real world. Its users definitely admired it, but there was rather small number of them, and they even do not seem to be a representative sample of programmer population - their average skills, motivation and environment were far better than normal. Academics also loved Multics but nevertheless they did not bother themselves with carrying its inheritance into the future. So no one knows how this potentially superior Multics would behave in big real world. >Its spreading was a catastrophe outperformed by only Windows. Also for Windows - I don't see any disaster in proliferation of Windows. Although I do not like this system too much, but I see that it really works in very dirty world. I do not think that it is easy to develop an OS that will perform better for the same user base. So I think that in your above (quoted) sentence the word "disaster" should be related to "spreading" but not to "Windows". that is, the catastrophe you mentioned is the fact of access of millions of users to computers, and not a particular OS that provided that access. > If someone could esimate the losses resulting in this twin disaster! Yes, I can: it's a loss of virginity of masses regarding computers. Alexander Kopilovich aek@vib.usr.pu.ru Saint-Petersburg Russia