From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,1ea92c0e5255811d X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2003-03-06 19:22:57 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!grolier!137.194.32.100.MISMATCH!enst.fr!not-for-mail From: "Robert C. Leif" Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: RE: Way OT: Adam Smith and Software Markets Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 19:19:52 -0800 Organization: ENST, France Message-ID: Reply-To: "comp.lang.ada mail to news gateway" NNTP-Posting-Host: marvin.enst.fr Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: avanie.enst.fr 1047007350 41438 137.194.161.2 (7 Mar 2003 03:22:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@enst.fr NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 03:22:30 +0000 (UTC) To: "'comp.lang.ada mail to news gateway'" Return-Path: X-Envelope-From: rleif@rleif.com X-Envelope-To: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4510 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1 Precedence: list List-Id: comp.lang.ada mail to news gateway List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:35003 Date: 2003-03-06T19:19:52-08:00 Web distribution is ideal for a free market. However, the purpose of advertising is to circumvent a free market. Government intervention = often can create monopolistic conditions. Conversely, if the standards are set = by an organization that does not sell a product, such as government, competition will be increased. Bob Leif -----Original Message----- From: Jason [mailto:pmorrison@4lpi.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 10:03 AM To: comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org Subject: Re: Way OT: Adam Smith and Software Markets "Frank J. Lhota" wrote in message news:... > > Unfortunately, as this points out in yet another way, the classic = Adam > > Smith free market works very poorly for software. >=20 > There is a simple experiment that can show that the market for = software, for > the most part, works fairly well. Do you have an old PC in your attic? = You =20 > In my time, I have constantly seen market pressure fuel many hardware = and > software improvements. The companies that failed to make improvements = in > their products have often suffered tremendous falls. (Remember = WordStar, the > MicroPro word processor that once held over half the word processing > market?) I am not saying that we in the software industry could not do > better, and I wholehearted agree that software development as it is = done > today needs much better quality assurance techniques. But one cannot = deny > how far we have come. The proof of that is just one attic away. Getting back to Adam Smith, I always find it interesting when people invoke his name in discussions because he's often quite misunderstood. For example, Smith said very little about corporations in the Wealth of Nations, and it's hard to have a discussion about the software (or any modern) market with out the effect of corporations. I haven't read it in a while, but as I remember he seemed to think they were useful in only limited cases and were kind of a fad. He didn't see how an artificial paper entity could have the same strong self-interest that kept individuals competing in the marketplace. What he didn't get was that corporations distill the self-interest of thousands of individuals, without the messy moral sentiments that were so important in his philosophy. I also think it's interesting how often the Theory of Moral Sentiments is overlooked by those who preach Adam Smith this, Adam Smith that. Anyway, I guess the point I'm getting to is that the involvement of corporations to such a degree would throw Smith off today. Someone above mentioned that economics is a scale with free market at one end and command at the other. This is an oversimplification. For example, if we go to the far end of free market, with virtually no government intervention/regulation, I guarantee we'll find more monopolies and much, much less competition than in a free market with certain competition-promoting rules. So if we impose some rules, like antitrust regulations, labeling laws, etc., are we really moving toward a command economy? What does this have to do with software? Well, the subject does say "Way OT" ... But really, I just think that we need to recognize that for better or worse, corporations change all these equations. This is part of the reason why, for example, I can't think of a single thing I've done with Word 2000 on Win 2000 that I couldn't have done with whatever version I had on Win 3.1 (Word 5, maybe?), and they both seem to run about as quickly. But then I was using a 386 40MHz, and now I've got an Athlon 1400 MHz. This seems sort of pathetic to me. It might be possible that had the software industry been a collection of individuals competing in a completely free market, things would be different. Then again, big projects often can't be completed by individuals. So we'll never know. But it is safe to say that whatever progress has been made in software, it's not really Adam Smith's free market at work.