From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, REPLYTO_WITHOUT_TO_CC autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII X-Google-Thread: 103376,3885b7fd66a1db28 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2002-12-21 07:49:03 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!lnsnews.lns.cornell.edu!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!news.stealth.net!news.stealth.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!diablo.theplanet.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!teaser.fr!enst.fr!not-for-mail From: "Alexandre E. Kopilovitch" Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Why is Ada NOT a good choice for a beginner to programming? Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 18:47:06 +0300 (MSK) Organization: h w c employees, b f Sender: comp.lang.ada-admin@ada.eu.org Message-ID: Reply-To: comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: marvin.enst.fr Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: avanie.enst.fr 1040485742 82670 137.194.161.2 (21 Dec 2002 15:49:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@enst.fr NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 15:49:02 +0000 (UTC) Return-Path: X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.44 MSDOS] Errors-To: comp.lang.ada-admin@ada.eu.org X-BeenThere: comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: comp.lang.ada mail<->news gateway List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: comp.lang.ada-admin@ada.eu.org X-BeenThere: comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org X-Original-Cc: davidw@uq.net.au Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:32158 Date: 2002-12-21T18:47:06+03:00 "David Wright" wrote: >As a young adult investigating learning programming as a hobby >(self-teaching on PC, Windows 98), I�ve been lurking for a while and have >looked at some relevant Ada sites. My purpose is to gradually and thoroughly >learn computing constructs and ultimately to apply same and see how far I >can take this interest. Well, if your aim is indeed "to gradually and thoroughly learn computing constructs and ultimately to apply same" then you have very little choice: you may choose either Ada 95 or SML. All other more or less popular languages will significately deviate you from the aim. > I'm not making a career of it... well not yet anyway. That's good, because neither Ada nor SML are best boosters for a programmer's career. >there are three essential threshold requirements, namely: > >1) A free (preferably) downloadable programming environment that is installs >without fuss and instability For Ada 95 here is GNAT compiler, which fully satisfies this requirement. >2) Good online and hardcopy support (tutorials and textbooks) for a BEGINNER >PROGRAMMER per se, not just beginners with that LANGUAGE For Ada 95 - no problem with that... although, as a beginner programmer you should chose a proper textbook among available ones. Perhaps it should be Michael Feldman's "Ada 95: Problem Solving and Program Design" (3rd edition). >3) An online community that has a tradition of supporting such beginners to >programming. Well, in my personal opinion, Ada 95 is far best of all known programming languages in this respect. >BASIC and PASCAL very!! clearly fulfill these criteria and I am tempted to >start with one of them. Well, you may have a good start with them, but probably your whole way will not be too long with such a choice -;) >Specific Questions: >1) Am I not giving Ada sufficient credit for being a suitable entry-level >language for a BEGINNING PROGRAMMER? Ada assumes that you understand your task *before* programming. For example, if you decide to solve mathematical equation using Ada, you must know appropriate mathematical theory beforehand. That is the main restriction imposed by Ada - Ada do not encourage playing at the program level. So, you may be beginner as *programmer*, but you should not be beginner in the problem area. >2) Would you recommend that I immerse myself in either BASIC (QBasic) or >PASCAL (Borland TP7) for a couple of years (yes, OK... forget BASIC ;D) and >THEN springboard to Ada? My answer is definitely NO. >3) If you were to opt for Ada as an entry point, which particular dialect or >environment would be the most user friendly from a set up and >�learning-the-fundamentals� point of view. There are no Ada dialects, all Ada implementations strive to follow the standard. As for environments, I think you have little choice because you need free compiler - and there are no (I think) free non-restricted compilers except GNAT (Aonix has free version, but it is restricted in several respects... although that may be not significant for a beginner). You may also look at Janus/Ada (I think it isn't free, but inexpensive). Alexander Kopilovitch aek@vib.usr.pu.ru Saint-Petersburg Russia