From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM, LOTS_OF_MONEY,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,REPLYTO_WITHOUT_TO_CC autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,da46977c58c329df X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2002-01-30 19:06:08 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!fr.usenet-edu.net!usenet-edu.net!enst!enst.fr!not-for-mail From: Eric Merritt Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Ada's Slide To Oblivion ... Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 19:05:53 -0800 (PST) Organization: ENST, France Sender: comp.lang.ada-admin@ada.eu.org Message-ID: Reply-To: comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: marvin.enst.fr Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: avanie.enst.fr 1012446362 20534 137.194.161.2 (31 Jan 2002 03:06:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@enst.fr NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 03:06:02 +0000 (UTC) Return-Path: In-Reply-To: <3C58B44C.E63A9C19@adaworks.com> Errors-To: comp.lang.ada-admin@ada.eu.org X-BeenThere: comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: comp.lang.ada mail<->news gateway List-Unsubscribe: , Errors-To: comp.lang.ada-admin@ada.eu.org X-BeenThere: comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:19406 Date: 2002-01-30T19:05:53-08:00 for those of us who do not live in san jose can you post the content? --- Richard Riehle wrote: > There was an article about software quality in last > Sunday's > San Jose Mercury News. I wrote a letter to the > editor in > response to some of the assertions in the article. > The > editorial page editor just contacted me and told me > it would > be in this Sunday's editorial section (Computing > Section, > probably). I only mention Ada once, but it is a > strong > mention. Will probably get some reaction from the > people > out there who use what I call "error-prone" > languages in > my letter. > > Richard Riehle > > Marin David Condic wrote: > > > An interesting article. One could argue about the > accuracy of the survey, > > but it probably isn't that far off from reality. > > > > What I liked about it was that it was fair and > balanced. It didn't smack of > > the usual anti-Ada vitriol, nor was it filled with > misinformation. The > > criticism that Ada doesn't have as many tools as > C/C++ is reasonably fair - > > I think it is a better situation than the author > seems to imply, but let's > > face it: For just about any embedded board, you > can get a C compiler thrown > > in with the development kit & you won't find Ada > riding along with it as an > > alternate choice. (Although Gnat merging with gcc > stands to help improve the > > situation - but still people have to ask for it or > nobody will bother.) > > > > The question about programmers being > "intellectually lazy" may have a lot to > > do with it. In order to do Ada development in a > way that maximizes the > > benefits and minimizes the time fighting with the > compiler to get it right, > > requires that you spend time up front thinking > about the organization of the > > system - what the relevant data types are, what > information should be > > hidden, etc. Embedded developers tend to be > tinkerers who want to start > > hacking some bootstrap code and keep adding things > to it until it works. > > Weeks of planning and diagram drawing and design > meetings prior to writing > > any code tends to not be the thing they got into > the business to do. Never > > mind that it might save months/years of debugging > and produce a more > > reliable system that improved customer > satisfaction and reduced liability - > > that's just not the mode of thought that feels > comfortable to your average > > embedded/C developer. > > > > The question at the end about the government being > to blame for not sticking > > to its guns is another interesting one. The > government instituting "The > > Mandate" (especially when compiler technology just > wasn't there) probably > > raised a lot of hackles over being "forced" to do > something. (I *still* > > think that had the government tried bribery > instead of extortion, it might > > have worked. If you were the program manager for > some electronic whozits and > > the government offered you a $100,000.00 bonus if > only you could find a way > > to get the project done in Ada, do you think your > opposition to Ada would be > > so strong?) > > > > Anyway, having had The Mandate, then abandoning it > is worse than never > > having The Mandate to begin with. Think about it - > the perception is that > > the government was admitting it made a mistake by > mandating Ada, so the > > contractors started abandoning it in droves. > Standing there saying "No! > > Really! I'm *NOT* saying Ada is a bad thing!!!!" > doesn't matter. Actions > > speak louder than words and perception often *IS* > reality. ("Hey, the DoD > > dropped Ada like a hot rock. We must have been > right all along. Ada really > > *did* suck!) > > > > The good news is that if people are writing > thoughtful articles like this > > and observing that Ada really does have benefits > (despite lack of use) maybe > > it might generate some renewed interest. The fact > that they're writing about > > it at all is a sign that Ada isn't a non-issue. > IOW, "I don't care what they > > say about Ada as long as they capitalize its name > right!" :-) > > > > MDC > > -- > > Marin David Condic > > Senior Software Engineer > > Pace Micro Technology Americas > www.pacemicro.com > > Enabling the digital revolution > > e-Mail: marin.condic@pacemicro.com > > Web: http://www.mcondic.com/ > > > > "Volkert" wrote in > message > > > news:b84db440.0201301508.1e3ea4b6@posting.google.com... > > > found at Embedded Systems Programming: > > > > > > >Ada is the only language designed to > > > >significantly reduce and maybe even > > > >eliminate dumb programming errors. Did > > > >it fall into disuse because we're > > > >intellectually lazy? > > > > > > read more: > http://www.embedded.com/story/OEG20020125S0098 > > > > > > Volkert > > > > > _______________________________________________ > comp.lang.ada mailing list > comp.lang.ada@ada.eu.org > http://ada.eu.org/mailman/listinfo/comp.lang.ada __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com