From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,3885b7fd66a1db28 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2002-12-25 19:09:39 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.clear.net.nz!news.clear.net.nz.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2002 21:09:37 -0600 From: Craig Carey Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Why is Ada NOT a good choice for a beginner to programming? Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2002 13:50:19 +1300 Message-ID: References: <15FN9.2313$c6.2612@bos-service2.ext.raytheon.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.92/32.572 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Customer of Mercury Telecommunications Ltd Cache-Post-Path: drone5.qsi.net.nz!unknown@tnt1-117.quicksilver.net.nz X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b5 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: drone5-svc-skyt.qsi.net.nz X-Original-Trace: 24 Dec 2002 13:50:05 +1300, drone5-svc-skyt.qsi.net.nz NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.97.37.6 X-Trace: sv3-sSSiSXAjqaBHq35lOsMW6HIybArRBjRnZpI4jumFBqBklGOD6a7QQikLlxzqiZkhlRFJNZk3Vjy1W2D!ZHCOCowa8h1vmsiJH3yvf1ThktkRJfeek2/sjFx8Yg5DI/Xt9sIsY4+qdMyiEJcEkVOcQ2J7zKdf!4wZEbbg= X-Complaints-To: abuse@clear.net.nz X-DMCA-Complaints-To: abuse@clear.net.nz X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.1 Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:32311 Date: 2002-12-24T13:50:19+13:00 List-Id: On Mon, 23 Dec 2002 09:29:17 -0500, Wes Groleau wrote: ... >> with Win'98, I would play with the supplied (I think) QBasic >> to get a feel for programming. > >He professes to be a beginner, and yet he has enough >insight to see that C, C++, and Java invite "buggy >frustration" :-) > >Actually, as much as I detest the unjustified hype >surrounding Java, it might be considered a good >_compromise_ between C/C++ and In all my time browsing around valueless Java websites, I never saw the point made that companies and developers who use Java, get complaints about Java, and an very interesting thing about the complaints is how every user can spot the fact that Java is worse. Some open source projects use Java because they want the top programmer to learn it. That faulty thinking can go sour when it turns out that the software does not run excellently, and the end users want to criticise Java and it is worse. Instead of bug reports the first program is close to never being used again. Criticisms of the decision to use Java tend to appear. Problems with Java can be serious. I had a problem my self in December 2002: previously I could browse to the download page and copy the URL off a console window running a proxy, and then enter that URL into Fastget. But Sun Microsystems has shut that down and a webbrowser really has to be used. Presumably persons in the jungles of Asia would still have to use a webbrowser after bloats up to be 98MB in size or whatever. It is complaints from Asia and China and all around the world that help make Java programmers and Java project leaders (and certainly not university staff who are kept excluded) as unable to defend Sun as we currently believe them to be. I see that in the MS trial, a Gosling (?) memo was produced and it said that Java had instability. Instability seems to described a far advanced hard to reverse state of averaging evidence of bugs. Sun Microsystems maybe is a leader in bug concealment. I presume the first prime technique is to make it look like the end programmers are at fault. I am waiting for the day that Sun hits bankruptcy (e.g. forces by some anti-trust split up) and a judge requires they start imposing royalty fees on companies like IBM. Craig Carey http://www.ijs.co.nz/ada_95.htm