From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Thread: 103376,3025dd6d917b499c X-Google-NewGroupId: yes X-Google-Attributes: gida07f3367d7,domainid0,public,usenet X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit Received: by 10.66.89.164 with SMTP id bp4mr568718pab.14.1350667823375; Fri, 19 Oct 2012 10:30:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Path: s9ni24736pbb.0!nntp.google.com!news.glorb.com!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!mx04.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Simon Clubley Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Ada, the best language with the not-so-best tool chain Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 17:30:22 +0000 (UTC) Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Message-ID: References: <38af7fb8-b0a4-4a31-87aa-b7b698cc89c3@googlegroups.com> <3ca0ffd0-1764-484b-8fab-17c0d2dd9463@googlegroups.com> <1f645050-cf4c-40bf-a797-9687b69e4a54@googlegroups.com> <18ats2960nsvm$.kfufsnul13aq$.dlg@40tude.net> <5072c9ae$0$6562$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net> <4keoa6epdxt7.1nnwxy7v7ar90.dlg@40tude.net> <5072dc68$0$6554$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net> <1f7cmfp1l65w1.1deog8cfxbs0u$.dlg@40tude.net> <5072e37a$0$6556$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net> <1wzhg6cdjkwjj$.uq66rzr2nlgy.dlg@40tude.net> <39b5b475-41c9-4e69-a648-a84deeff50e9@googlegroups.com> Injection-Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 17:30:22 +0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: mx04.eternal-september.org; posting-host="e298f3c034f630fa7d024371528fc2e1"; logging-data="17484"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+1EMjVSIxxnyOK1kylIdqBc+pR1xee6n8=" User-Agent: slrn/0.9.8.1 (VMS/Multinet) Cancel-Lock: sha1:E3g+yYKAAJ3/bM7VXjCT4W9DVks= Date: 2012-10-19T17:30:22+00:00 List-Id: On 2012-10-19, Patrick wrote: >> Will die for whom? Not for every-one, and certainly not for people to >> which it values enough. > > This is just my uneducated opinion but I am guessing that companies like > Adacore are "riding out" projects started before the DOD dropped the Ada > mandate. It's great that the boeing 787 has Ada but if the 777 was C++ would > they have switched to Ada? I think for the language to stay viable there has > to be a "grass roots" base and that starts with it being easy to use for the > everyday hobbyist. Patrick is absolutely correct about the latter bit and I've strongly believed for some time there's a good element of truth to the first bit as well. I was going to have another go at trying to explain things, but instead I will just ask a simple question: What are the dominant programming languages on the F-35 and why ? If people here will not listen to me, try listening to one of your own: https://journal.thecsiac.com/issue/53/158 |About the Author: | |John H. Robb is the Senior Manager of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Air |Vehicle Software team at Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Fort Worth. He says Ada was the better language. I certainly agree with that. He also says (on choosing C and C++ instead of Ada) : |Primary factors in this choice were training availability, tool support, and |processor support. Another key factor was type casting, not as a language |feature, but as a hiring feature. Many of the university students simply |refused to work Ada as it was not seen as a marketable experience base. When |all factors were considered, C++ and C emerged as the languages of choice |(these depending on the processor chosen). That's exactly what I and others have been trying to tell people here. I wish I had known about this article a couple of weeks ago. It's easy to ride on inertia for a while when you have a installed base and can convince yourself that everything is ok. Unfortunately, in the end, that usually only turns out to be a temporary thing. Ada is going to be around for existing systems for a long time. If you want Ada to actually _grow_ instead of declining however, you need to expose people to Ada early on before the above opinions have had a chance to form, and for the most part that means: (a) catching them while they are doing projects on their own time, (b) giving them tools which will work on the hobbyist/low end boards they will be experimenting with, and (c) understanding that hobbyists have a different ecosystem to the ones you are used to, but which serves them well given the environment they operate within and the projects they are typically interested in. Simon. -- Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP Microsoft: Bringing you 1980s technology to a 21st century world