From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,INVALID_DATE autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Path: utzoo!utgpu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!igor!rutabaga!jls From: jls@rutabaga.Rational.COM (Jim Showalter) Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Ada9x Transition Plan (443 lines) ftp-ed from AJPO Message-ID: Date: 27 Mar 91 03:15:38 GMT References: <2916@sparko.gwu.edu> <2926@sparko.gwu.edu> Sender: news@Rational.COM List-Id: >I couldn't agree more with your basic idea. However, industry folks should >realize that in the university world we don't teach languages, we teach >concepts and the languages are just means to the end (this is especially >true at the undergraduate level). Just because we teach Ada using spiraled >subsets of the language doesn't mean we only teach "sort-of" Ada. I think we're in violent agreement here, actually. When I teach Ada, I also teach using a spiral approach (what other method IS there?). I just don't want to see subset Ada blessed by the validation office. If you want to teach a subset, fine: but do it with a real Ada compiler. >I keep >meeting industry guys who are so far removed from what we do that they >sincerely believe we can start with a first semester freshman and teach >all of Ada in one semester. They oughta go back and imagine themselves >before they ever write a program. I am currently teaching a bright but scarcely computer-literate individual Ada as his first programming language. We are currently a month into the experiment, and he is quite capable with control structures, subprograms, types, subtypes, private types, selectors/constructors/iterators, and generics. I'll admit that sometimes I get asked interesting questions (like, try explaining sometime why a formal is CALLED a formal...), but all in all I think the experiment has been a resounding success--and we've got two months left. >The biggest problem I have with most Ada83 systems is that they were >designed for industry, not for education. As such, the payoff from them >comes with large(r) projects, not the little ones freshmen do. Agreed, but only partially. I think any software engineering student benefits from the orthogonal (well, MOSTLY orthogonal) syntax/semantics of the language, the type model, spec/body separation, and private types: with these you can attack 90% of the language-caused problems that beset projects of any size. >The >nice thing about Arcturus is that performance, within its capacity limits, >is directly proportional to program size. Perceived performance of >commercial compilers is, for student-sized projects, nearly O(1), >with a much-too-high constant. We have an effective batch compilation rate of 150KSLOC/minute. Is that fast enough? :-) [gotta LOVE incremental compilation] >My recurring nightmare is that the >government will end up funding another ALS or AIE which, by the time the >cautious bureaucrats allow its release, will have long since been overtaken >by events. RAPID PROTOTYPING is what this oughta be about. Violent agreement here! ALS = infinite resource sink -- ***** DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed herein are my own. Duh. Like you'd ever be able to find a company (or, for that matter, very many people) with opinions like mine. -- "When I want your opinion, I'll read it in your entrails."