From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM, REPLYTO_WITHOUT_TO_CC autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: fdb77,5f529c91be2ac930 X-Google-Attributes: gidfdb77,public X-Google-Thread: 1108a1,59ec73856b699922 X-Google-Attributes: gid1108a1,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,583275b6950bf4e6 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: f43e6,899fc98b2883af4a X-Google-Attributes: gidf43e6,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2003-05-14 10:10:56 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!wn13feed!wn12feed!worldnet.att.net!216.166.71.14!border3.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.gbronline.com!news.gbronline.com.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 12:10:57 -0500 Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 12:10:55 -0500 From: Wesley Groleau Reply-To: wesgroleau@despammed.com Organization: Ain't no organization here! User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, es-mx, pt-br, fr-ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.object,comp.lang.ada,comp.software-eng Subject: Re: Quality systems (Was: Using Ada for device drivers? (Was: the Ada mandate, and why it collapsed and died)) References: <9fa75d42.0304230424.10612b1a@posting.google.com> <9fa75d42.0305011727.5eae0222@posting.google.com> <17cd177c.0305072114.24f04783@posting.google.com> <9fa75d42.0305090612.261d5a5c@posting.google.com> <9fa75d42.0305091549.48b9c5d9@posting.google.com> <7507f79d.0305121629.5b8b7369@posting.google.com> <9fa75d42.0305130543.60381450@posting.google.com> <5mmwa.65$dp4.60@read3.inet.fi> In-Reply-To: <5mmwa.65$dp4.60@read3.inet.fi> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.117.18.69 X-Trace: sv3-wMGYjTy/ws+Xw0s2eqLZCzHebB3Sm4L/SKNetpiHSupJN7ELojtNV/PIg+nxH3UcgkWNQcSwksv7SaI!njsgWDEEmKJY6jB9FL71SgU5oe9gB1BlnRlcciMV9wBLh4zhl28Lpo3kcQM0TvhdKiDe8TqN003U!T9MP X-Complaints-To: abuse@gbronline.com X-DMCA-Complaints-To: abuse@gbronline.com X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.1 Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.java.advocacy:63785 comp.object:63390 comp.lang.ada:37328 comp.software-eng:19183 Date: 2003-05-14T12:10:55-05:00 List-Id: Anders Wirzenius wrote: > The Juno part was a good story of the opposite approach. > Some people claim that the army gives a good education > to leadership. To me the army is more of the Juno type > while most companies nowadays belong to the Microsoft > type where you have to convince and motivate No, ideally and in general, the military works like Joel described Microsoft. Of course, due to it's mission, the military has to have the potential for intervention from on high IF NECESSARY. There are indeed officers who abuse this potential to act like the alleged Juno CEO, but in peace time, they tend to get drummed out eventually, and in war time, they tend to get killed. (Unfortunately, too often they take a lot of others with them either way.)