From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,TO_NO_BRKTS_FROM_MSSP autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,23963231b5359f74 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: fdb77,c9f2b97a84c48976 X-Google-Attributes: gidfdb77,public X-Google-Thread: 1158e3,c9f2b97a84c48976 X-Google-Attributes: gid1158e3,public X-Google-Thread: 1073c2,23963231b5359f74 X-Google-Attributes: gid1073c2,public X-Google-Thread: 10a146,23963231b5359f74 X-Google-Attributes: gid10a146,public X-Google-Thread: 101deb,23963231b5359f74 X-Google-Attributes: gid101deb,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2001-06-14 07:20:50 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!newsfeed.google.com!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!hammer.uoregon.edu!feed.textport.net!newsranger.com!www.newsranger.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada,ccomp.lang.clarion,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.lang.pl1,comp.lang.vrml,comp.lang.java.advocacy From: Ted Dennison References: <9folnd$1t8$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <3B1FE1FE.B49AE27F@noaa.gov> <9fotpi$4k6$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <3b24dc21$1@news.tce.com> <3B25D5FB.15C9B240@dresdner-bank.com> <9g5as6$hbq$1@magnum.mmm.com> <9g5ipg$roq$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <9g614i$at4$1@magnum.mmm.com> <9g7r02$mni$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <9g840k$qjt$1@nh.pace.co.uk> <40gfitgrvd8cgu27r3vfib6eptmapb3pfl@4ax.com> <9g8lrk$37c$1@nh.pace.co.uk> Subject: Re: Market pressures for more reliable software Message-ID: X-Abuse-Info: When contacting newsranger.com regarding abuse please X-Abuse-Info: forward the entire news article including headers or X-Abuse-Info: else we will not be able to process your request X-Complaints-To: abuse@newsranger.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:19:59 EDT Organization: http://www.newsranger.com Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 14:19:59 GMT Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:8723 comp.lang.java.programmer:76316 comp.lang.pl1:1024 comp.lang.vrml:3793 comp.lang.java.advocacy:21092 Date: 2001-06-14T14:19:59+00:00 List-Id: In article <9g8lrk$37c$1@nh.pace.co.uk>, Marin David Condic says... > >Yes, presuming the company that made the product is willing to go this >route. (Free in what sense?) They have to see their future income as coming >from selling support or other stuff if they are going to give away the >program. (Not all software has this potential - do people regularly buy >support for, say, a computer game?) When I capitalize "Free", its to indicate that I'm talking about FSF-style "Free Software". Nearly all software is already developed as custom software under a system where the deveopers are paid for the development. That includes *every* project I've ever worked on in my career. Even for most of the "licensed" commercial software I deal with, the "support" is the most expensive part. So using Free Software models wouldn't even noticably impact the vast majority of the software developed. Of course this skirts around the issue that the small minority of software left actually gets distributed the most. But there are still ways to make money using Free Software in that realm. RedHat has shown that. They just won't make nearly as *much* money as they would if they could somehow charge a toll on each copy. You bring up games. To answer your question directly, yes people *do* pay for "support" for games. 900-number "hint lines" for adventure games are not unheard of. Also, nearly every game company has some kind of customer support (the money to pay for for that obviously comes from game sales, so you can think of it as sort of a "support tax"). I've played computer games avidly for over 20 years (since back when games were distributed in compliation books as BASIC source code). So I have thought about this a lot. For a computer game, what I'd try to sell is the manual. There's already a racket going where the shipped manuals are useless, and anyone who wants to know what's really going on buys a "game guide". They might as well make it official. I also collect the boxes, and on one glorious occasion, got one autographed by the heads of the development team (Sid Meyer, Brian Reynolds, et al). So I'm quite confident that people would still pay for an official "hard" copy (perhaps even more for a hand-autographed one). >Now there might be something to the notion of software developed under the >Ada Developer's Cooperative License (or similar) in that the guys who build >the code only get paid if the code gets used and sold. The only way for that That might work out OK in a world of mass-produced shrink-wrapped software. But remember paragraph 1: the vast majority of software *developed* does not fit that mold. In the world in which I work, I can't use any nifty routine that's going to add to the system's costs, because *I* don't get to make those kinds of decisions. The folks that do are my managager's manager, who's already obsessing about overruns, and the paper-pushers off in accounting, who require all sorts of paperwork and market research and competitive sourcing and several weeks to make any kind of decision (You should see us trying to buy a PC video card before it goes obsolete. Its sad, really). Unless we are talking some pretty significant functionality, its far easier for me to just rewrite it all myself (and what a shameful waste of human effort that is!). So that license might get some lucky package shipped in lots of software copies. But for the vast majority of *developers*, its just going to render the package useless. --- T.E.D. homepage - http://www.telepath.com/dennison/Ted/TED.html home email - mailto:dennison@telepath.com