From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Thread: 103376,43da6dbb54689557 X-Google-NewGroupId: yes X-Google-Attributes: gida07f3367d7,domainid0,public,usenet X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit Received: by 10.68.50.133 with SMTP id c5mr43685933pbo.2.1317347887911; Thu, 29 Sep 2011 18:58:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Path: lh7ni7940pbb.0!nntp.google.com!news1.google.com!volia.net!news2.volia.net!feed-A.news.volia.net!news.ecp.fr!news.jacob-sparre.dk!pnx.dk!jacob-sparre.dk!ada-dk.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Randy Brukardt" Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Inventors of the Holder container Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 20:58:03 -0500 Organization: Jacob Sparre Andersen Research & Innovation Message-ID: References: <30167654.2087.1317306874062.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqnv12> NNTP-Posting-Host: static-69-95-181-76.mad.choiceone.net X-Trace: munin.nbi.dk 1317347886 32490 69.95.181.76 (30 Sep 2011 01:58:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@jacob-sparre.dk NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 01:58:06 +0000 (UTC) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Response X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 Xref: news1.google.com comp.lang.ada:18214 Date: 2011-09-29T20:58:03-05:00 List-Id: "Jeffrey Carter" wrote in message news:j62cmj$gof$1@tornado.tornevall.net... > On 09/29/2011 07:34 AM, marius63 wrote: >> "I've been using this 'holder' approach for years." (Alex Mosteo, in >> another thread) >> >> Me too. But I've got proof :-) >> >> "... the simplest way is to make your own with any other of the standard >> containers..." (Alex) >> >> Curiously enough, exactly how I proposed it. > > I think this is one of those "obvious" things that has been (re-)invented > many times by many people. Right. Pretty much everything about containers has been (re-)invented over and over and over... Not being able to read other people's minds, but my recollection is that the holder container came up pretty organically in the ARG, while we were discussing a problem with the use of the proposed ASIS semantic interface. We had examples that needed to store class-wide objects as local variable, and someone suggested that a container could be used to store them. And then someone suggested that such a container should be part of the standard library. And someone was assigned to make a formal proposal. Note that an important part of the Ada.Containers packages was to suggest a layout for such packages, and pretty much every new package proposed following that layout is going to look the same. In any case, if you want credit for some package in the Standard, you need to present a proposal including RM-quality wording. Ideas are a dime-a-dozen -- everyone has proposed some package or other, but only a few have gone to the hard work of providing RM wording for them. (And then gone through the bloody process of getting the ARG to like your work.) I've done two (Ada.Directories and Ada.Containers.Multiway_Trees) -- and proposing new features like expression functions was not half as hard. (Part of the problem is that everyone has an opinion on the right way to design packages; that's much less true for language features.) I have an amazing amount of respect for Matt Heaney's efforts in getting Ada.Containers into language form in the first place -- because I realize how hard it is to have people continually pick at your best efforts, finding flaws that you're not even sure are flaws. Randy.