From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,5cb36983754f64da X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public Path: controlnews3.google.com!news2.google.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!tar-meneldur.cbb-automation.DE!not-for-mail From: Dmitry A. Kazakov Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: No call for Ada (was Re: Announcing new scripting/prototyping language) Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 15:09:24 +0200 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: tar-meneldur.cbb-automation.de (212.79.194.119) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1083675299 864881 I 212.79.194.119 ([77047]) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Xref: controlnews3.google.com comp.lang.ada:235 Date: 2004-05-04T15:09:24+02:00 List-Id: On Tue, 4 May 2004 12:21:39 +0000 (UTC), Georg Bauhaus wrote: >Dmitry A. Kazakov wrote: >:>I do not want to undermine craftsmanship. Sometimes engineers work >:>as craftspeople and vice versa. Sometimes craftspeople have domain >:>knowledge superior to engineers', and vice versa. Sometimes both >:>know much/little about related sciences that might even be unkown >:>to the scientists. >: >: No engineer cannot know more than a scientist, because any engineer is >: a scientist when he/she *knows* something. >: >: Craftspeople may only have practical experience, be trained etc, but >: not know. When alchemists started to know, they became chemists. > >If I understand the rules of your rhetorics game correctly, >a craftsperson becomes a scientist as soon as he or she knows >something? Or do they become engineers? Scientists' beer is paid by taxpayers, while engineers should first earn it, if you don't mind my "rhetorics game". (:-)) >Like the stone carvers and master masons in the late middle ages >who had learned geometry, languages, etc., and did experiments? Yes, though masons practiced in humanitarian "sciences", where learning geometry is rather an obstacle. (:-)) >What good is there in calling a craftsman an engineer because >he happens to be a craftsman who knows something? He might >take pride in being a craftsman *and* in knowing something. >He might not want to be called an engineer. Are things now so bad that it became a swear-word? >: Science and arts are stagnating and highly unpopular. > >How do you measure this? I find it hard to believe that >you measure evolving science by the number of years it >takes to invent an improved vehicle. I do not measure it, I just observe it. >:>: It can, but why should everything depend on lobbying? >:> >:>It shouldn't. Can you name an alternative? >: >: No. But if someone could, would you be ready to accept any? > >Any in the sense of just about any no matter what? >It is of no importance what I would accept. If people >see an alternative to lobbying, it is likely that some will >adopt it if it seems rewarding. You are an incorrigible idealist! Didn't people saw alternatives to x86, Windows, C++? Don't they see that all people are brethren? Would you ask me now how I measure their blindness? -- Regards, Dmitry Kazakov www.dmitry-kazakov.de