From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Thread: 103376,e188126e7f5e82f X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public,usenet X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,UTF8 Path: g2news1.google.com!news3.google.com!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!feeder.news-service.com!news.motzarella.org!motzarella.org!not-for-mail From: Ivan Levashew Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Ada not mentioned in GCC 4.3 release notes Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 22:29:22 +0600 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Message-ID: References: <9cd86244-11e5-45a1-b77b-1fb13e99b9ee@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com> <20080311093324.7c3a0447.tero.koskinen@iki.fi> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: feeder.motzarella.org U2FsdGVkX1+BLay+YPQuwlHKAHNnvHHuNCOmWHkKcMtx/euohCbK/mZUWMCsLbExI1zG8qhisFQb62CKjtSRJBTm+ASkYSF8gclxACDT3UR6PI2NXRKOcLQjt3G4JFfkj0k5SAjk8gdWBNDfXYhztQ== X-Complaints-To: Please send complaints to abuse@motzarella.org with full headers NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 16:27:46 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: X-Auth-Sender: U2FsdGVkX1+NNZi+LDgvDv1asOcqE53vaX+elmEt9LHQzJYB79lBjQ== X-Image-URL: http://img220.echo.cx/img220/9664/111408397042725603791c71pb.gif Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAFVBMVEUAAAOZlpMaJz3/9fYs //8FP1E2M3Qbef+MAAACEklEQVQ4jZ2TTW7bMBCFJwO465B2uqZfS+4NnyBA7LXMerSPEPL+R+gb KqmTIAWKDiCCmo9v/kSJqGaVJCp/TLk3kbypSPmdX2QD2YikTUrAe6CqiWuCL/LR3Cfu/AJgbP4K Phtjfz77vwAfOv4XkNPXVSkqwZvmfTZMAriHMOGG1EOt7xw1Rli8hTIkV4DDTIFn6qqYZJ5JFLhT yIVnHAoIrlYTNGKf7yVMUS4yvYITdC8EMaZwHyX4t4ERnCv2uN+HGMFH4x2bHuDEahD1IUR18LAn mC3Jjork3Wny28Gp+h1pMhR08VV9s55hc/J08qrg90RHP15uXag4c1pYMFvVbHmBB3bFtVGBpVwe z+Hno7UyABU8yYEt1l5q+P54Mj8sM5dsVdRqu4RDCLvWGn2lj8pMJdC2BMdtCFG0L8rptiz6Y3s8 Hh1wjehXby133vRneo5hBSgvu+rfozdodnDYui6g7645m1jpVXELFUtnz6yo9MUKfo1YhzXF6WSc bu09Ax7rcGSsgNKezKggaDNGLH8icz80EsmlcwxOPMcBBJZd0VnWzOnSGbYUMEXNnqO00gvB4p1T gG7TUMydxjljz9xxAAyFzUvpfiEZLHD91iwNhVmvfXybYaksDioVlDh4JdqbwVYFyQ2Unq8EeQDr GDfcrS/ZUF8VJAtWUW8pPyFXr8oDMun4r0pHgiVMafoNgUqRDtakwdAAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Face: *tpB#/X3&Zh\?<4l;hAgY:m6lt6L]v#Udy\Xwy{@<'qP=9clA}kEbbSV1]B0a^O{|ibsNV~|zu.Da}V4*se@ns!8*Bt$9l-]nbD}o*7ml9J2)u:"!6P%_-`y9,'.L.Psp),njUf!=F5;kx%~\,'D$%{" Cancel-Lock: sha1:fzCulIFWqIjmDTYMEOh6wR9pOBQ= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X; ru; rv:1.8.1.12) Gecko/20080213 Thunderbird/2.0.0.12 ThunderBrowse/3.2.1 Mnenhy/0.7.5.666 Xref: g2news1.google.com comp.lang.ada:20349 Date: 2008-03-13T22:29:22+06:00 List-Id: Britt Snodgrass пишет: > Yes, I agree that its looks bad. I've raised the issue on the gcc > list before but nothing has happened. I think there are better ways to raise popularity of Ada. Those who are heading FOSS development seem to be completely unaware of Ada. For example, A. S. Tanenbaum in his "Modern Operating Systems", chapter 2 "Processes and threads" used Pidgin Pascal he just invented to demonstrate Hoare monitors: monitor ProducerConsumer condition full, empty; integer count; procedure insert(item: integer); begin if count = N then wait(full); insert_item(item); count := count+1; if count = 1 then signal(empty) end; function remove: integer; begin if count = 0 then wait(empty); remove = remove_item; count := count+1; if count = 1 then signal(full) end; count := 0; end monitor; procedure producer; begin while true do begin item = produce_item; ProducerConsumer.insert(item) end end; procedure consumer; begin while true do begin item = ProducerConsumer.remove; consume_item(item) end end; It's not about preferences, it's what complete unawareness is! How many people are reinventing Ada? Tanenbaum's Minix was foundation to Linux, and Tanenbaum's book is very popular in systems programming community. Systems programmers are completely unaware of Ada. Systems programmers read Tanenbaum's book. Systems programmers remain completely unaware of Ada. Another point: Ada bindings are aliens in the FOSS world. Consider 2 examples: 1. gettext gettext comes with Java, Lisp, *C#* bindings, but no Ada. If you need gettext in Ada, you must use separate package GtkAda (BTW, is there a standalone version of gettext/Ada?) Note C# here. http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q2.07/878F362F-2BF5-4C86-84E7-9C976F7BDDD4.html ----------quote------------ Does this mean that Microsoft is now aligned with open source developers and working to push open, interoperable implementations of its software? Is the old triangle of contention between Microsoft, Linux and Apple dissolving into a free and open love circle? Ha Ha, No. Microsoft is not trying to usher in a new OpenStep with .Net. It is working to usher in a new Win32: another decade of dependance upon Microsoft software that can only work on Windows. Why the subterfuge on submitting portions of .Net to standards bodies? Three guesses, and the first two don't count! The best way to keep opponents busy is to give them false directions that lead into traps. This will distract them from blazing their own successful, competing trail, and will lead them directly into containment with the least mess and inconvenience. Microsoft is leading Mono users and developers into a pleasant feeling trap. Along the way, they gain appreciation for Microsoft's development tools as they struggle to make their own open source copies. They will grow increasingly familiar with Microsoft's directions, up to the point where they are hopelessly brainwashed into thinking that Microsoft is leading technology into a paradise of openness. ----------quote------------ That's why C# must be moved off from gettext to the Gtk#, and Ada binding be moved from GtkAda to the gettext instead. 2. SWIG SWIG support many languages out-of-box, but guess what? GNAT-SWIG is still a separate project. It would be natural to aquire GNAT-SWIG into the SWIG. Even if it's not tested as good as another bindings. Mark Ada support "experimental" and bundle GNAT-SWIG with SWIG. There must be Ada FOSS wins other than just GCC.