From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Thread: 103376,470860aa3e635a7 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public,usenet X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit Path: g2news2.google.com!news3.google.com!feeder1-2.proxad.net!proxad.net!feeder1-1.proxad.net!club-internet.fr!feedme-small.clubint.net!nuzba.szn.dk!news.jacob-sparre.dk!pnx.dk!not-for-mail From: "Randy Brukardt" Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: GNAT for MS Visual Studio Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 20:59:10 -0500 Organization: Jacob's private Usenet server Message-ID: References: <13duou81kg3sd1c@corp.supernews.com> <13f3e0vbb05s47c@corp.supernews.com> <13f6eg0te46m2a3@corp.supernews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: static-69-95-181-76.mad.choiceone.net X-Trace: jacob-sparre.dk 1190426176 22238 69.95.181.76 (22 Sep 2007 01:56:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@jacob-sparre.dk NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 01:56:16 +0000 (UTC) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1807 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1896 Xref: g2news2.google.com comp.lang.ada:2075 Date: 2007-09-21T20:59:10-05:00 List-Id: "William J Thomas" wrote in message news:13f6eg0te46m2a3@corp.supernews.com... > Randy, > > I'm not talking about just a programming environment. I'm talking about a > GUI builder, a program that allows me to develop graphically oriented > programs, more specifically one that would allow me to develop MS Window > Forms programs in the Ada Language!!! What's "Windows Forms"? I know all about the native GUI environment (that's what Claw and several other GUI builders target), and .NET and some about Silverlight, but never heard of anything else (nor have ever heard of anyone wanting it, either). > I can get Visual FORTRAN and Visual Cobol all running under MS Visual > Studio, all allowing me to develop much more graphically sophisticated (and > usable) programs than I can ever dream of with any Ada compiler that now > exists under the Windows environment. That I don't doubt. But to work with Microsoft, you have to have *very* deep pockets, and you can't care that they'll canabilize your work if you have success. It's not practical for any Ada company (and probably nearly impossible for a real open source one). And of course building your own (as Aonix did way back, and as we [started to do] did with Claw) is essentially a black hole. That is, it sucks up money and resources that could be used on projects that people care enough about to pay for. > It's not that difficult to understand what I want, I just want Visual Ada > instead of C#. I want it running in the same environment, with all the Ada > oriented IntelliSense, with tools to help me generate Help files, and an > uncountable Class library all with Ada interfaces, with oodles and oodles of > import pragmas. I want to be able drag and drop in a PageSetupDialog and > watch it jump into the area under my form, I want to be able drag and drop a > DataGridView and be intimidated by all of the Ada event routines I'll have > to work with, I want to be able to drop in a FlowLayoutPanel and have it.... > > Do you get the picture Randy, and that's another thing I want is a > PictureBox so I can go over to my property view and set the file path to my > gif file. But I want it all inside MS Visual Studio. I want it to look and > feel like every other language under Visual Studio except I want it to be > Ada. You want miracles. I can't say I blame you (this isn't that far from what we were trying to accomplish with Claw), but I don't think it will happen. Given the rate at which Microsoft evolves their stuff, simply keeping up would be too much for the majority of Ada companies. (It surely would be too much for ours.) The majority of (paying) Ada users don't use GUIs anyway (something we found out with Claw) - the people on comp.lang.ada are not that typical of the Ada user base as a whole (or at least of the ones that keep Ada companies in business). Randy. > > That's all. > > And I wouldn't be so sure about the government agency. It's either a > government agency or Satan himself that's keeping Ada from being a > successful language in the Windows scheme of things. Or it could just be > those evil Ada Vendors that have been blinded by the Lord because they have > forsaken the quest of Ada proliferation and have drifted, some to the right > and some to the left, none have stayed the course, none have reached the > promise land, all have fallen short. > > You know what I mean Randy. > > "Randy Brukardt" wrote in message > news:fcv43c$8sg$1@jacob-sparre.dk... > > "William J Thomas" wrote in message > > news:13f3e0vbb05s47c@corp.supernews.com... > > ... > >> No MS Visual Studio GUI building capability. > >> > >> Tell me is there some secret government agency out there preventing Ada > > from > >> having a good, reliable GUI builder on MS Windows? > > > > I doubt that, I think it is more that many of us can't figure out > > precisely > > what such a tool would offer over the tried-and-true command line tools. > > (Yes, I do the vast majority of my programming from an MS-DOS window using > > the same 1980s editor I've always used.) Sure, I can imagine some really > > neat features, but those would be impractical (lousy response time, > > unrealistic requirements, probably would need an incremental Ada compiler > > to > > implement them). > > > > We've seriously looked at this issue, and concluded that a decent > > programming environment would take more than 3 man-years to create: longer > > than implementing the majority of the Amendment changes to the language. > > And > > only a few people would want to use it (me, and possibly you, and I don't > > know of any others.), because they all want Visual Studio or Eclipse or > > something else that isn't designed to work with Ada. As such, there is no > > possibility of recouping the investment in time and money, so I think > > you'll > > be waiting essentially forever on that one. (We are working on a simple > > Windows programming environment, but it will not have anything fancy; it > > is > > aimed simply to make our compiler more usable to those who can't handle a > > command line. And the only reason we're doing that is that we can't update > > the one we have currently - no source code.) > > > > Randy. > > > > > > > > > >