From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: f849b,b8d52151b7b306d2 X-Google-Attributes: gidf849b,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,a00006d3c4735d70 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2003-12-26 03:19:21 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news2.google.com!newsfeed2.dallas1.level3.net!news.level3.com!news-out.visi.com!petbe.visi.com!newshub.northeast.verio.net!verio!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!phaedsys.demon.co.uk!chris From: Chris Hills Newsgroups: comp.arch.embedded,comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Certified C compilers for safety-critical embedded systems Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 11:15:08 +0000 Organization: Phaedrus Systems Message-ID: References: <3fe00b82.90228601@News.CIS.DFN.DE> <3FE026A8.3CD6A3A@yahoo.com> <3bf1uvg2ntadvahfud2rg6ujk24sora6gr@4ax.com> <2u3auvogde8ktotlaq0ldiaska3g416gus@4ax.com> <20619edc.0312221020.3fd1b4ee@posting.google.com> <20619edc.0312222106.3b369547@posting.google.com> <45cs9hAbLc6$EAAx@phaedsys.demon.co.uk> <3fe9f0d7.104475725@News.CIS.DFN.DE> NNTP-Posting-Host: phaedsys.demon.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1072437561 12774 80.176.226.26 (26 Dec 2003 11:19:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2003 11:19:21 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Turnpike Integrated Version 5.01 M <7y9ouFdz6gbBVVTek6rkWKl0do> Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.arch.embedded:6118 comp.lang.ada:3809 Date: 2003-12-26T11:15:08+00:00 List-Id: In article , Robert I. Eachus writes >Dave Hansen wrote: > >But remember that you really have to think in terms of development host, >target, and the ICE or other system used to download and run tests. So >the triplet you want may or may not be supported. Exactly my point. A theoretically good language is useless without the support tools.... And those support tools haveto be of high quality as well. >> The 8015 I've never heard of. I assume you mean 8051, to which I'd >> have to say I haven't heard of one, though there is a Modula-2 >> compiler. > >There have been several Ada compilers that targetted 8-bit >microprocessors. I am surprised. > However, I don't think anyone ever validated an 8051 >target due to capacity limitations. That is the problem. A non-validated Ada compiler would be no more value than a good C compiler. Actually a good C compiler eg the Keil C51 that has been extensively used in safety related projects by a large number of people would be better simply because of the empirical field usage compared to a non-validated Ada compiler with a small user base.. > There is an interesting discussion >here, at length, about that topic (in 1995): >http://www.adahome.com/News/Trip-Reports/TA95-email.html >There is evan a comment there (by me): >"AFAIK the smallest computers that Ada has been targeted to >include the 128-kbyte Western Digital P-machines, the Russian PDP-11 >clones, and the RRSoft compiler which ran on 512K 8088 based >PC-clones. > >However, in all these cases the compiler was self-hosted! That takes some doing!!! >So certainly an 8051 target is very reasonable, it just remains >to be seen if anyone wants to do it." I doubt it. At least not in large enough numbers to justify it especially as 61508 permits C (subset, with coding standard and static checking) to SIL-4 In effect a SPARK-C >I think the situation is still the same, although there are other 8-bit >and even 4-bit microcontrollers with Ada targets. So it may just be >that programmers who choose Ada choose Motorola microprocessors, and >vice-versa. (In point of fact, I've never used an Intel microprocessor >in an embedded system, but I have used many Motorola chips, and Z-80s.) Yes there are a LOT!! They are mainly the 186 and 386. There are of course the PC 104 systems but... Strangely due to the sort of projects they 186 and 386 were used in there has been a lot of activity in that field over the last 9 months.... However I doubt this interest will continue (unless somewhere else gets invaded) /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/\ /\/\/ chris@phaedsys.org www.phaedsys.org \/\/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/