From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,1116ece181be1aea X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2003-09-19 18:44:36 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail From: aek@vib.usr.pu.ru (Alexander Kopilovitch) Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Is the Writing on the Wall for Ada? Date: 19 Sep 2003 18:44:33 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Message-ID: References: <8mgdmv08eaabv53vv5sofud2k40lbo0fdh@4ax.com> <6roimvg39s8h5ba64u9pn0trsa4d3u4kai@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.33.245.47 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1064022275 18380 127.0.0.1 (20 Sep 2003 01:44:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Sep 2003 01:44:35 GMT Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:42706 Date: 2003-09-20T01:44:35+00:00 List-Id: Dmitry A. Kazakov wrote: > >> Can't common people perceive scientifical concepts in the form of a > >> vision? > > > >Sad to say, they can't. > > Come on! Everybody had a vision of a TV set. Well, and which scientific concepts are represented by this wooden or plastic box with a glass screen showing dynamic images and something inside producing speech and music? > >Their recognition facilities aren't trained for that. > > Rather, they are well trained not to recognize it. It's impossible - to train not to recognize - at least at current state-of-art and not a single person, but a big part of population. You can (with big and very costly effort) block a particular way of recognition, but no more. > >Science fiction literature in its best efforts tried to make a bridge for that, > >but even the best authors - Isaac Asimov, John Wyndham, Stanislav Lem, Boris > >and Arkady Strugatsky > > Hal Clement Hm, I never heard of him. Well, these days it isn't too hard, probably I'll try to see what other people said about this author. > > - fell short of that; they mostly provided glimpses of > >only human part of scientific environment, that is, human logic, human decision > >mechanism etc. ... although some novels of them (especially of Asimov) may be > >useful for an intermediate level, as it pertains to the scientific concepts. > > Honestly speaking, among these writers only Clement and maybe > Strugatsky tried to show a science-oriented society, where knowledge, > rather than money, is a measure of success. Given current circumstances regarding intellectual property, I can't resist to ask question: if knowledge, rather than money, is a measure of success, doesn't this mean that knowledge became a property in that science-oriented society? -;) > All others are considering space ships as granted. I see no problem with it, they just extrapolate from already established tendency; nevertheless, Asimov's spaceships are still evolving (after 20+K years), for example in "Foundation and Earth", where this is significant for a plot. > >Fruits of science can't be directly visible. All good (or arguably good) fruits > >of science must first pass through engineering, > >It is no matter. Cash must also pass through a money access machine. But money access machine doesn't change the money, and you get exactly what you expect, you know the thing in advance. I think you will be much surprised (and quite unpleasantly), if you get from something you never seen before (and of unknown value and of entirely unfamiliar form) from a money access machine. > Similarly as with science, people grown in rich families often despise > money and become anarchists, socialists, anti-globalists, greens etc. > They just take wealth [created by others] for granted. I don't know how often it happens (I never meet such persons, and I strongly suspect that you also have no reliable sources for statistics about this phenomena), but anyway I do not count those, almost always young people being so stupid - I think they just are trying other values... rich families provide them possibility for an experiment without too much danger for their present and future status - so why not to use this opportunity (sometimes)... ? Alexander Kopilovitch aek@vib.usr.pu.ru Saint-Petersburg Russia