From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,1116ece181be1aea X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2003-09-12 11:55:54 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail From: aek@vib.usr.pu.ru (Alexander Kopilovitch) Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Is the Writing on the Wall for Ada? Date: 12 Sep 2003 11:55:50 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Message-ID: References: <9keolvs9tjbbbuv1ndnsr69af7mtddemhk@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.33.246.12 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1063392953 27019 127.0.0.1 (12 Sep 2003 18:55:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 12 Sep 2003 18:55:53 GMT Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:42429 Date: 2003-09-12T18:55:53+00:00 List-Id: Dmitry A. Kazakov wrote: > >And Mars do not pose an immediate threat. > > Enron, Worldcom, Deutsche Telecom, uncounted DOT-COM companies; Do you see anything unusual in all that? If so then you surely read neither history nor classical literature... or forgot all that stuff. Well, forgotten past do not remain in the past -;) . For me, all those Enrons etc. are (as a general system phenomena) an attempt to perform soft landing, in other words - to discharge situation, which was gradually becoming dangerous. If you think that this not soft but hard landing then look, for example, at the end of 1920th (and observe worldwide consequences of those events). Generally, world/civilization recently entered into new major stage of global technological trasformation (the most visible part of which is certainly Internet with all its direct consequences, but there are other, no less significant technological changes), and it would be far too stupid to expect that such a major system transformation will proceed smoothly everywhere at the micro-level (where we live -;) . Moreover, it is improbable that even richest and strongest countries will be able to push all (or almost all) the burdens of that transformation somewhere outside. > Mission critical software in Visual Basic; I must confess that I'm sick and tired of those words "mission critical". What a mission? For which or for whom it is critical? Is it a calculation of optimal credit policy for some bank? Ah, perhaps you will say that you mean medical equipment. so which part of it and for which particular purposes it serve? As you mention Visual Basic then probably it runs under Windows - so what you have against Visual Basic if you run Windows - do you think that Visual Basic is less safe/reliable than average part of Windows machinery? Probably you associate incompetent programming with Visual Basic, but most probably you only guess that is the case, an do not know the actual programmer's skills. Imagine that you are offered lucrative contract, which you think you can easily done... but it is non-negotiable requirement that all must be done in Visual Basic. Will you reject that offer? Or, if you accept it, will you develop bad/unsafe/unreliable software, excusing yourself by inherent inferiority of Visual Basic? > even NASA have admitted > problems with management. Isn't that a threat? On the contrary, I was pleasantly surprised with some formulations in the investigation board's report. You know, while your investigation facilities are generally healthy, your cause isn't lost beyond repair. > >Actually, they do not want specifically Java - they want fashionable > >things, and no more. > > It was partially true three years ago, but presently there is too > little resources to spend them on bells and whistles. You didn't get me right - I didn't mean bells and whistles, I meant exactly what I said - they want fashionable things, no matter what is fashionable at this moment. They perceive Java as fashionable - so they want Java, and it doesn't matter whether they speak about good GUI or about economy of resources. > In most cases they do want a real and necessary thing. Perhaps, but still very often they can't describe that real and necessary thing adequately. They even often have no firm understanding what they want: they surely understand their *problem*, but not a solution. In other words, they have good "negative" understanding, but not a "positive" one. > And they want this thing for less money and yesterday. It always been (and will be) so. Just because they are elements of the market, and play their roles in the game. > For what ever reason, they > are convinced that a funny technology X will save the money and time. They aren't convinced in anything of that sort. Don't keep them so stupid. They just are keeping the current fashion when they have no special arguments in their terms), which justify anothey way. > So either you have to come with this technology, or to present > something already working in a way they understand as "working". The > best way to do both. > >This is why in my view Ada-to-JVM and Ada-to-DOT-NET should be on the >top of priority list to make Ada popular. I wonder how can you think that Ada ever can be popular in the sense you implied. Any popular and massively used thing will necessarily and quickly degrade to some average level (at best). A popular Ada can't be generally better than, say, C++. > Where you saw cheap subcontractors? (:-)) Did you mean that you for some reason can't use individuals as subcontractors? (Otherwise I can't get this your question.) > > And for those customer's > > managers you may explain that your technology is a great combination > > of a solid software engineering methods and technique for fundamental > > issues of the project and a modern, state-of-art (Java) technology > > for data communication and data presentation. > > Nobody will allow you to do same thing twice. Why "same thing"? Do you mean, for example, that a prototype demo, which must be presented at some early stage of a project and the final release of the product are now regarded as the same thing, for economy of resources? > The customer will fire you if he discover how you spend his money. Don't permit him to discover anything of this soft - just expose all that explicitly in you plan, along with appropriate explanations. > In most cases they wish a > precise control over how many people are working on the project and > what exactly they are doing. I never saw a customer, who would say, > here is NN bucks and X is the deadline. That would be an end of the > world we live in. (:-)) Hm. Try to do with Americans -:) For my (as well as some my friends here) experience, Americans are generally much smarter and much more flexible than Europeans in that matters. It is often no problem with Americans to see a customer who says: $NNN for X at mm/dd/yy (and wonderfully, they keep their word, as a rule). Although I agree that Europeans tend to pay more for less, and therefore they may seem more attractive as customers -;) . Alexander Kopilovitch aek@vib.usr.pu.ru Saint-Petersburg Russia