From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 11232c,877ba3d67e73c6c3,start X-Google-Attributes: gid11232c,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,ac39a12d5faf5b14 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2002-04-11 14:14:28 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mailgate.org!mygate.mailgate.org!198.207.153.205!not-for-mail From: "Kent Paul Dolan" Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada,misc.misc Subject: Rant! (was) Development process in the Ada community Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:14:27 +0000 (UTC) Organization: Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG Message-ID: References: <3CB46975.90408@snafu.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.207.153.205 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: news.mailgate.org 1018537210 32164 198.207.153.205 (Thu Apr 11 23:14:27 2002) X-Complaints-To: abuse@mailgate.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:14:27 +0000 (UTC) Injector-Info: news.mailgate.org; posting-host=198.207.153.205; posting-account=48257; posting-date=1018537210 User-Agent: Mailgate Web Server X-URL: http://mygate.mailgate.org/mynews/comp/comp.lang.ada/dfc3a9eb805c5538c8b1d19eb9c9aff3.48257%40mygate.mailgate.org Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:22388 misc.misc:6251 Date: 2002-04-11T21:14:27+00:00 List-Id: "Michael Erdmann" wrote: > i am wondering how standards are eveloving in the Ada community. > In the Java Community there is a process called Java Community > Process (JCP, http://www.jcp.org/) > Is there something comparable in the Ada communitiy? I guess > if there would be something like this there would be more > dynamic in the Ada 95 community. You have put your finger, probably, on the cause of the US Military's collapse on the issue of an Ada Mandate in the face of programmer intransigence to use Ada among the military community, in the answers you have received. The love of doing things one rigid way, with all decisions handed down from above, ran square into the software development community, which is used to speedy and flexible growth in its tools. Probably Ada was doomed to be the Horse Cavelry of programming languages the day its language standardization process was chosen, and I'm afraid you are going to find no cure for what is basically an incurable attitude problem of an entire, isolated programming community. Like Steven Jay Gould's "allopatric demes", Ada, brought back to cross fertilize with other programming languages and their newly invented mechanisms, might have provided hybrid vigor and a new, more competitive product. Instead you see what you see: "Why should we want a superior graphics interface to replace an inferior one, while maintaining the old one so as not to break old code?" "Why should the new developments become _part of the language_?" "Who needs a standard OS calling interface _in the language_?" "We don't need no stinking programming community inputs to the language!" "Procedure for change? We want stability, stability, stability!" [The Kaiser's army had stability; programming as a task by definition does not.] ad infinitum. No wonder the military programming community dragged heels until DoD caved. I was _really_ excited when Ada came out -- Pascal readability, but with power! I am no longer thrilled. Where are the parallel processing features _in the language_, the robust and powerful string parsing features _in the language_, the "programming by contract" features _in the language_, the standard higher level math libraries _in the language_, knowledge representation _in the langauge_, the SEI CMM model turned directly into a _standard_IDE _in the language_, the standard DoD and telecom community communication protocols, all _in the language_? When do the mind-bogglingly complex bogosities get ditched: _decimal_ specification of sizes for _binary_ data containers!!! Give me a break. "Progress, keeping up with community standards, is for other people!" Give me a break. Sigh. So much promise, so small a result. Given a complete community feedback loop and about a hundred times faster language change response time, Ada could be everyone's programming language of choice today. Java, alive for about 7 years, is due imminently for its fifth major release. That still doesn't guarantee its survival; Sun has an incurable attitude problem toward making Java truly freeware, but it does help. Ada doesn't even have a sponsor any more outside the compiler vendor community, and I don't even see any visible signs of public debate and motion toward a second much needed major overhaul and upgrade for twenty year old Ada, just a few well hidden notes on some standards committee web sites. That comp.lang.ada isn't comp.lang.ada.* is a symptom of the whole mindset problem. Unitary Usenet discussion groups are very characteristic of exactly one thing: _minor_ programming languages. xanthian. At least when I yelled at the Fortran standards folks back in 1987 or so, they responded, and arguably saved their language from the dust-bin as a result. Here, the outlook is not so rosy. -- Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG