From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,INVALID_MSGID autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: fac41,2c6139ce13be9980 X-Google-Attributes: gidfac41,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,3d3f20d31be1c33a X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: f43e6,2c6139ce13be9980 X-Google-Attributes: gidf43e6,public X-Google-Thread: 1108a1,2c6139ce13be9980 X-Google-Attributes: gid1108a1,public From: dewar@merv.cs.nyu.edu (Robert Dewar) Subject: Re: Interface/Implementation (was Re: Design by Contract) Date: 1997/09/08 Message-ID: #1/1 X-Deja-AN: 270763470 References: <340F20A0.49B5@ac3i.dseg.ti.com> <340F39E3.4B71@pseserv3.fw.hac.com> Organization: New York University Newsgroups: comp.object,comp.software-eng,comp.lang.ada,comp.lang.eiffel Date: 1997-09-08T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: Wes says <> Very often in such discussions, you see claims that "feature x in language y can easily be simulated in language w using approach z" The trouble with such statements is that they are almost always true, and there almost always exists w,z for all x,y, but the observation is meaningless. For instance, a C programmer by very restricted, very stylized use of headers, together with amazing tools that enforce and monitor these restrictions, essentially complete duplicate the effect of the separation of Ada specs and bodies. But the issue is not whether C programmers *could* do this, but whether they *do* do this in practice? And certainly for that example, the answer is (rather universally) no. SO the issue with Eiffel is not whether you *could* get the effects, e.g. ease of ability to separate spec and body in a CM environment, but whether people *in practice* work this way. Note how significant it is that I make a simple request for anyone to report in on how Eiffel would work together with a typical CM tool like Continuus or Clearcase to achieve this kind of separation. The only responses have been theoretical, pointing out that in very general terms, with some unspecified additional tools, it could be achieved. But even these theoretical reponses have not shown any awareness of these CM tools -- one would almost begin to get the feeling that typical Eiffel projects are not using CM tools at all, though that cannot be right (probably, as is the case for Ada, most of the people working on real live projects have better things to do with their time than read, let alone contribute to, this rather wandering thread. Still it would be nice to have at least ONE concrete experience report that shows that the engineering details of this approach are practical.