From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,INVALID_MSGID autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,808316b907252cba X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public From: rick.thorne@lmco.com (Rick Thorne) Subject: Re: Looking for ADA Date: 1997/03/14 Message-ID: #1/1 X-Deja-AN: 225510080 References: <01bc2d83$4ca9e6a0$6966f4ce@wickline> Organization: Some, but limited Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Date: 1997-03-14T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: In article <01bc2d83$4ca9e6a0$6966f4ce@wickline>, "Warren Wickline" wrote: > I'm still a college student, and I was wondering if anyone could help me > find a cheap ada compiler. For the PC?!? This is kind of like asking "Gee, I'm married with 8 kids. Can anyone help me get a cheap divorce and keep my child support to a minimum?" As a college student, why are you bothering with Ada anyway? My recommendations: 1) Learn C, C++, Java, and other language technologies that actually have a future in the US. 2) Don't sweat Ada unless you get a job in a US DoD contractor's shop or a job in Europe, then let THEM pay you to work while you learn the language. 3) Keep your C, C++, & Java skills sharp whilst you work with Ada, because Ada's going away quickly, yes, even in the DoD world because of the Perry Initiative and the soon-to-happen elimination of the Ada Requirements (probably by july '97). 4) Learn OOA/D methods; these are the elements of the Software Crisis unsolved by Ada. As Brooks stated in "No Silver Bullet": Ada is just a programming language. It doesn't cover all the ground by any means. Good luck, and look to a future that HAS a future. -- ? Rick Thorne ? "I'm quite illiterate, ? ? software engineer by day ? but I read a lot" ? ? harried father of two by night ? J. D. Salinger ? ? rick.thorne@lmco.com ? ? From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20,FREEMAIL_FROM, INVALID_MSGID,PP_MIME_FAKE_ASCII_TEXT autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII X-Google-Thread: 103376,808316b907252cba X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public From: John Breen Subject: Re: Looking for ADA Date: 1997/03/15 Message-ID: <332A3939.43F5@mad.scientist.com>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 225656181 References: <01bc2d83$4ca9e6a0$6966f4ce@wickline> X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Organization: Edith Cowan University Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Date: 1997-03-15T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: Rick Thorne wrote: 
In article <01bc2d83$4ca9e6a0$6966f4ce@wickline>, "Warren Wickline"
<wickline@comp-res.com> wrote:

> I'm still a college student, and I was wondering if anyone could help me
> find a cheap ada compiler.

For the PC?!?  This is kind of like asking "Gee, I'm married with 8 kids.
Can anyone help me get a cheap divorce and keep my child support to a
minimum?"
Not really - GNAT is free, as is the ADACAPS�IDE which runs with it.  Try ftp://ftp.cs.nyu.edu (at least I think that's it :))


As a college student, why are you bothering with Ada anyway?  My
recommendations:
Some universities and colleges, like mine now use Ada rather than Pascal and C for teching programming.  I was forced to learn Ada 83 and now Ada-95 just because my Uni.  decided to change my course on me.

1) Learn C, C++, Java, and other language technologies that actually have
a future in the US.

2) Don't sweat Ada unless you get a job in a US DoD contractor's shop or a
job in Europe, then let THEM pay you to work while you learn the language.
Cheers,

john Breen From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,INVALID_MSGID, REPLYTO_WITHOUT_TO_CC autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,808316b907252cba X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public From: Dave Wood Subject: Re: Looking for ADA Date: 1997/03/15 Message-ID: <332A69A7.49E9@aonix.com>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 225685011 References: <01bc2d83$4ca9e6a0$6966f4ce@wickline> Organization: Aonix Reply-To: dpq@aonix.com Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Date: 1997-03-15T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: Rick Thorne wrote: > > In article <01bc2d83$4ca9e6a0$6966f4ce@wickline>, "Warren Wickline" > wrote: > > > I'm still a college student, and I was wondering if anyone could help me > > find a cheap ada compiler. > > For the PC?!? This is kind of like asking "Gee, I'm married with 8 kids. > Can anyone help me get a cheap divorce and keep my child support to a > minimum?" I'd say you're out of touch. ObjectAda for Windows costs $50 for students. Last I checked, this was less expensive than (for example) the Borland C++ educational price. Alternatively, you can get a free Special Edition of ObjectAda for Windows attached to Mike Feldman's Ada 95 textbook. For that matter, GNAT is free as well, but for the effort of the downloading. > As a college student, why are you bothering with Ada anyway? Perhaps because his professor recognizes that Ada is superior as a teaching language to C/C++? > My recommendations: > > 1) Learn C, C++, Java, and other language technologies that actually have > a future in the US. Interesting. I wouldn't bank too much on C/C++, as the rise of Java will come at the expense of these languages more than any other. Not that C/C++ will rot away and die, but I wouldn't forecast a whole lot of growth. There will be a glut of C/C++ programmers out there, competing for the same set of opportunities. Those opportunities will be less and less interesting as the fun stuff migrates to Java and the really complex and challenging stuff remains a strong suit of Ada (which also supports the JVM, but that's another topic.) > 2) Don't sweat Ada unless you get a job in a US DoD contractor's shop or a > job in Europe, then let THEM pay you to work while you learn the language. ... or unless you might be interested in working in some boring area like cutting edge Boing commercial avionics, Westinghouse nuclear plant controls, or the NASA space station, rather than experience the excitement of writing unix file filters and hacking null pointer dereferences. Well, if you can stereotype, so can I. :-) > 3) Keep your C, C++, & Java skills sharp whilst you work with Ada, because > Ada's going away quickly, yes, even in the DoD world because of the Perry > Initiative and the soon-to-happen elimination of the Ada Requirements > (probably by july '97). Interesting theory. I can tell you that sales of my products have risen sharply over the past year, and I can assure you the phenomenon has nothing at all to do with DoD requirements. Still, I wouldn't want to discourage anyone from having "sharp skills" in C, C++, or Java. After all, we encourage multi-lingual development solutions. It's a surreal experience to see Ada source code being debugged by Visual J++. In any event, my position has always been that anyone who cannot ramp up to speed in a very short period of time for any general purpose langauge has no business considering him/herself a software engineer. That's where the "sharp skills" pay off. Language is important to the program, but should be irrelevant to the programmer. > 4) Learn OOA/D methods; these are the elements of the Software Crisis > unsolved by Ada. As Brooks stated in "No Silver Bullet": Ada is just a > programming language. It doesn't cover all the ground by any means. I think this is perhaps a perverse interpretation of a very fine bit of writing. Further, if you think that OOA/D methods are in any way a silver bullet, I'd suggest you take another look at Brooks' title. His central point was that it takes good methods, good tools, good languages, good processes, and above all good engineers to slay the beast. Encouraging a student to forego looking into a good language seems inconsistent with your reference to Brooks. > Good luck, and look to a future that HAS a future. Skilled and thoughtful software engineers have an excellent future, regardless of transient technological choices. Personally, I'd rather work on *projects* that have a future. Anybody can get a job, but if I'm going to spend years of my life on a project, I'd like to see it fly rather than fall into the great software graveyard. My opinion and experience is that projects based on Ada have a better shot at making it over the long haul. > -- > ? Rick Thorne ? "I'm quite illiterate, ? > ? software engineer by day ? but I read a lot" ? > ? harried father of two by night ? J. D. Salinger ? > ? rick.thorne@lmco.com ? ? Don't quit your night job. :-) -- Dave Wood -- Product Manager, ObjectAda for Windows -- Aonix - "We don' need no stinking mandate." -- http://www.aonix.com From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20,INVALID_MSGID autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,808316b907252cba X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public From: Corey Minyard Subject: Re: Looking for ADA Date: 1997/03/15 Message-ID: #1/1 X-Deja-AN: 225693343 Sender: minyard@wf-rch References: <01bc2d83$4ca9e6a0$6966f4ce@wickline> Organization: Wonderforce Research Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Date: 1997-03-15T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: You shouldn't post on groups where you can only display your ignorance about a subject. rick.thorne@lmco.com (Rick Thorne) writes: > > In article <01bc2d83$4ca9e6a0$6966f4ce@wickline>, "Warren Wickline" > wrote: > > > I'm still a college student, and I was wondering if anyone could help me > > find a cheap ada compiler. > > For the PC?!? This is kind of like asking "Gee, I'm married with 8 kids. > Can anyone help me get a cheap divorce and keep my child support to a > minimum?" Yes, you can get a commercial quality Ada compiler for FREE (see http://www.gnat.com). I use it daily for my job; it is very high quality. You can get other commercial compilers for relatively cheap, including one that produces Java bytecodes for $99 (or $40 if you are a student). You can get IDEs, etc. See http://www.adahome.com for compiler info. > > As a college student, why are you bothering with Ada anyway? My > recommendations: Perhaps the class he is taking is using Ada? Perhaps he wants to pass it? The use of Ada in beginning CS classes is increasing dramatically (see http://www.adahome.com). I haven't seen the original post yet (since usenet is not causal :-), perhaps I missed his reason, though. > > 1) Learn C, C++, Java, and other language technologies that actually have > a future in the US. > > 2) Don't sweat Ada unless you get a job in a US DoD contractor's shop or a > job in Europe, then let THEM pay you to work while you learn the language. Or Boeing or any of their contractors (commercial aircraft), or Hughes (commercial air traffic control), or me. It might be useful to know Ada ahead of time, but it may not matter. In general, I have found knowing multiple languages useful in many respects. > > 3) Keep your C, C++, & Java skills sharp whilst you work with Ada, because > Ada's going away quickly, yes, even in the DoD world because of the Perry > Initiative and the soon-to-happen elimination of the Ada Requirements > (probably by july '97). Ada is not going away. The removal of the mandate will probably improve usage of Ada. Ada has never competed on a level playing field with other languages because of the mandate (drove compiler prices up, people don't like to be forced to do things, etc). Now it will. It is used extensively in safety critical systems (aircraft systems, biomedical, etc.) I think it will see increased usage. However, there is a tremendous amount of prejudice to overcome. > > 4) Learn OOA/D methods; these are the elements of the Software Crisis > unsolved by Ada. As Brooks stated in "No Silver Bullet": Ada is just a > programming language. It doesn't cover all the ground by any means. This I agree with (as well as keeping multi-language skills sharp). And, of course, there is no silver bullet. But Ada95 is an OO language and it covers more ground than any other language I have ever used (and I have used a lot). > > Good luck, and look to a future that HAS a future. > Warren, I too hope you do well. And don't believe everything you read (written by me or anyone else). Verify things; you might be surprised what you find! -- Corey Minyard Internet: minyard@acm.org Work: minyard@nortel.ca UUCP: minyard@wf-rch.cirr.com From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20,INVALID_MSGID autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,808316b907252cba X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public From: dewar@merv.cs.nyu.edu (Robert Dewar) Subject: Re: Looking for ADA Date: 1997/03/15 Message-ID: #1/1 X-Deja-AN: 225840066 References: <01bc2d83$4ca9e6a0$6966f4ce@wickline> <332A69A7.49E9@aonix.com> Organization: New York University Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Date: 1997-03-15T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: <> Actually you can also get GNAT very cheaply, not quite free, by getting the Walnut Creek Ada CD ROM, which has lots of versions of GNAT on it, as well as lots of other good Ada stuff. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,INVALID_MSGID autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,808316b907252cba X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public From: dewar@merv.cs.nyu.edu (Robert Dewar) Subject: Re: Looking for ADA Date: 1997/03/15 Message-ID: #1/1 X-Deja-AN: 225840902 References: <01bc2d83$4ca9e6a0$6966f4ce@wickline> <332A3939.43F5@mad.scientist.com> Organization: New York University Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Date: 1997-03-15T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: John Breen writes (showing he knows about as much about how to post to newsgroups as he knows about Ada): <<
2) Don't sweat Ada unless you get a job in a US DoD contractor's shop or a
job in Europe, then let THEM pay you to work while you learn the language.
Cheers,

john Breen>> As has been mentioned many times here and elsewhere, the critical thing is to learn how to program, that's the hard part. Ada makes that part a little less painful than learning C or C++, but the issue of learning particular syntax is pretty much irrelevant, what you need to learn is how programs and algorithms are structured -- again, Ada makes that tough job of learning a bit easier. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20,INVALID_MSGID autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,808316b907252cba X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public From: demer@hc17031.hcsd.ca (David Emery) Subject: Re: Looking for ADA Date: 1997/03/17 Message-ID: #1/1 X-Deja-AN: 226293643 Sender: demer@hc17031.hcsd.ca References: <01bc2d83$4ca9e6a0$6966f4ce@wickline> Organization: HCSD Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Date: 1997-03-17T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: I never realized that the HTML
environment name was an abbreviation for "A Quote from a Blockhead". dave -- Note: if email to me bounces, use 'emery@grebyn.com' From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_40,INVALID_MSGID autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,808316b907252cba X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public From: the one and only real true kibo Subject: Re: Looking for ADA Date: 1997/03/23 Message-ID: <5h2jbq$8qk@stronghold.dhp.com>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 227658837 References: <01bc2d83$4ca9e6a0$6966f4ce@wickline> Organization: DataHaven Project +1 412 421 4516 (DHP.COM) Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Date: 1997-03-23T00:00:00+00:00 List-Id: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Fri, 14 Mar 1997 09:53:08 -0800 in article posted to comp.lang.ada, Rick Thorne wrote: > In article <01bc2d83$4ca9e6a0$6966f4ce@wickline>, "Warren Wickline" > wrote: > > I'm still a college student, and I was wondering if anyone could help me > > find a cheap ada compiler. > For the PC?!? This is kind of like asking "Gee, I'm married with 8 kids. > Can anyone help me get a cheap divorce and keep my child support to a > minimum?" Ha ha ha. > As a college student, why are you bothering with Ada anyway? My > recommendations: > 1) Learn C, C++, Java, and other language technologies that actually have > a future in the US. That's right - forget ADA, it's dead. > 2) Don't sweat Ada unless you get a job in a US DoD contractor's shop or a > job in Europe, then let THEM pay you to work while you learn the language. Not a chance. Refuse to take a job that requires you to learn ADA. > 3) Keep your C, C++, & Java skills sharp whilst you work with Ada, because > Ada's going away quickly, yes, even in the DoD world because of the Perry > Initiative and the soon-to-happen elimination of the Ada Requirements > (probably by july '97). Don't use ADA to begin with. > 4) Learn OOA/D methods; these are the elements of the Software Crisis > unsolved by Ada. As Brooks stated in "No Silver Bullet": Ada is just a > programming language. It doesn't cover all the ground by any means. You can do anythijg in SQL. Who needs a procedureal language anyway. I am the only true Kibo. Finger me for my PGP public key. Check out my home page for the coolest way to vote on new newsgroup proposals or to issue Usenet cancels. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBMzTQtqlPvImbzLKZAQHLiQQAjoOfRNH7ybRjKrtvt/+IQ4xkOF8/bWXn d5zl/awRLcW9wMHAszYp7hWtwaS8tgg5cGQGuf28E5jqRI5X0iqMe5yUV/7bO4kV z1PvTtrbVSfCwe4OYpQgCfozUu+/uBsq2A//1TMqat/AsGKsr1JzrVOFfi2UCpLa Ayr4yVfJ50o= =JYQK -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----