From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Thread: 103376,751d508677a5add1 X-Google-NewGroupId: yes X-Google-Attributes: gida07f3367d7,domainid0,public,usenet X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit Path: g2news1.google.com!news1.google.com!npeer02.iad.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!post01.iad.highwinds-media.com!API-DIGITAL.COM-a2kHrUvQQWlmc!not-for-mail Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 19:14:39 -0500 From: "Marc A. Criley" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.1.9) Gecko/20100423 Thunderbird/3.0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: ADA made me hate programming References: <8f469661-370c-4484-82d8-f1b365455e0f@w12g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> <7865d$4c3125c1$433a4efa$24658@API-DIGITAL.COM> <746c$4c3253ae$433a4efa$25085@API-DIGITAL.COM> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com Organization: UseNetServer.com X-Trace: d206b4c366a1fe69feb5f09379 Xref: g2news1.google.com comp.lang.ada:12272 Date: 2010-07-08T19:14:39-05:00 List-Id: On 07/07/2010 07:23 PM, anon@att.net wrote: > Anon, I've made no personal attacks on you. While I have stated that I don't think you're a very good Ada designer or programmer, I clearly spelled out my reasons for that belief. Software design requires planning ahead, problem analysis, and skepticism about one's own and other's material and efforts. Your posts--throughout comp.lang.ada--show you clearly lacking in all three aspects, which bodes ill for the quality of your software skills. I completely agree that making personal attacks is the refuge of those without valid arguments, which is why I don't do that, or go ad hominem, or guilt-by-association, or make false analogies, etc. But drawing conclusions about a person's abilities from the evidence they've posted and their ability (or lack thereof) to mount a valid argument or defense is simply how humans go about estimating the credibility, abilities, and trustworthiness of others. (Head's up: you're not doing well.) You're saying that I haven't proved what you said is false. I think you need to go back and reread my responses. You claimed missile in-flight updates had been hacked and it was widely reported on the news. No, it wasn't, you haven't cited a single specific report from a reputable source for that claim--and all it takes is _one_ to prove me wrong. (I did look, and I couldn't find any either, not even from DISreputable sources :-) You claimed that Treason was the most common charge leveled against those who violated their security clearances. Again, no, I merely had to refer to the *first* Google link found using the keywords "US treason convictions" ("List of people convicted of treason Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia"), which took me all of 10 seconds to conceive and execute, to verify that was a false claim as well. Believing something to be true doesn't make it true. Claiming something is true doesn't make it true. Repeatedly asserting something is true doesn't make it true. Refusing to back away from a claim proven false doesn't make it true. The comp.lang.ada newsgroup has long been an excellent gathering place for both Ada fans and those who have questions, and its regular denizens have always supported it as a robust and respectful place for questions, debate, news, and community support. But those who come here to troll, to have someone do their homework done for them, to make baldly false statements about the language, its applications, and the world in which it operates will get smacked down. The signal-to-noise ratio is very high in this group, and it has to be actively maintained to stay that way. (Comp.lang.ada has been this way for as long as I've been in it, and I just checked and found what I think was my first post--from early 1995!) Debate can be a little rough at times, and I've been on the receiving end of it, not all of it undeserved (http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.ada/browse_thread/thread/beb0b7471c6440e3/ca3db59dd03d8ad1. I'll admit that some of my responses in that thread were a tad intemperate, but I was younger then, it takes muuuuuch more to rattle me now :-) The thing is that debate can be vigorous, and in those cases one needs to be knowledgeable, be prepared, and be credible. Simon Wright, Dmitry Kazakov, Pascal Obry, Ludovic Brenta, amongst many, many others have demonstrated in this newsgroup their knowledge of Ada, its use, and the thought behind it. They, again along with many others, make credible, reasoned arguments for their technical opinions, which may even contradict other newsgroup participants' from time to time. Their postings demonstrate that they've got the knowledge, the experience, and the technical chops to have _earned_ the credibility they possess on this forum. You, on the other hand, have made provably false claims, made personal attacks on other members (http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.ada/browse_thread/thread/ebdc5ed511896a0/a1e3ffc9fcaaf6a7?lnk=gst&q=bauhaus#a1e3ffc9fcaaf6a7, "Discussion subject changed to 'To new TROLL named Georg Bauhaus' by anon"--sorry George :-), and claim "volumes of knowledge" but refuse to back it up with actual code, publications, or any other materials, citing "paperwork" that prevents you from doing so. But Simon, Dmitry, Pascal, me (http://www.mckae.com, http://sourceforge.net/projects/evex), and many others put our work out on on the Web for anyone to access, download, hopefully put to good use, and make their own determination about our competence and capabilities. I have no personal animosity towards you--you like Ada, which always grants some points in your favor. But I have no patience for foolishness, ignorance, and hubris, especially when it is proclaimed and defended as something other than what it is. Comp.lang.ada is a wonderful gathering place with great information and great professional people, and there is little tolerance for those who would damage it. Marc A. Criley