From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, REPLYTO_WITHOUT_TO_CC autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Thread: 103376,703c4f68db81387d X-Google-Thread: 109fba,703c4f68db81387d X-Google-Thread: 115aec,703c4f68db81387d X-Google-Thread: f43e6,703c4f68db81387d X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,gid109fba,gid115aec,gidf43e6,public X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit Path: g2news1.google.com!news3.google.com!news.glorb.com!news-feed01.roc.ny.frontiernet.net!nntp.frontiernet.net!newscon06.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.net!newsfeed-00.mathworks.com!panix!panix2.panix.com!not-for-mail From: comeau@panix.com (Greg Comeau) Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada,comp.lang.c++,comp.realtime,comp.software-eng Subject: Re: Teaching new tricks to an old dog (C++ -->Ada) Date: 13 Mar 2005 15:07:37 -0500 Organization: Comeau Computing; http://www.comeaucomputing.com Message-ID: References: <871xau9nlh.fsf@insalien.org> <19167262.fkuVsrGd7i@linux1.krischik.com> Reply-To: comeau@comeaucomputing.com NNTP-Posting-Host: panix2.panix.com X-Trace: reader1.panix.com 1110744457 8425 166.84.1.2 (13 Mar 2005 20:07:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 20:07:37 +0000 (UTC) Xref: g2news1.google.com comp.lang.ada:9334 comp.lang.c++:45455 comp.realtime:1432 comp.software-eng:4993 Date: 2005-03-13T15:07:37-05:00 List-Id: In article <19167262.fkuVsrGd7i@linux1.krischik.com>, Martin Krischik wrote: >Greg Comeau wrote: >> In article , >> Martin Dowie wrote: >>>Greg Comeau wrote: >>>> In article <1462853.JgxLXPrZ7W@linux1.krischik.com>, >>>> Martin Krischik wrote: > >>>>>And they havn't got 100% compliance - as the Ada compiler vendors >>>>>have. And they can indedd claim that - Ada has the ACATS test - >>>>>pass the test you are 100% compliant - fail the thest and (almost) >>>>>no customer will consider your offer. >>>> >>>> Out of curiosity how old is the ACATS test, and how many >>>> compilers currently pass it? Still looking for this number if anybody has it handy. >>>The latest (I believe) is dated 2002 but will certainly be getting >>>updated to test Ada2005. See http://www.ada-auth.org/acats.html >> >> Ok. >> >>>All compiler vendors claim some level of conformance >> >> In what ways? This sounds like a different statement >> than I thought others were saying/implying. > >The Ada standart consists of the core language and optional features like >real-time system and distributed systems. > >>> and some publish their results. > >> Again, seems a different statement. > >You might want to read the first chapter of http://www.ada-auth.org. Usualy >the test is done by third part laboratories and then the vendor publish >"pass" for there major releases - but they might not publish for >intermediate releases :-( . > >BTW: In the past it was Ada(tm) and only compilers with pass the test where >allowed to use the trademark Ada. For better or worse that is gone now - >and with it the need for a vendor to publish the result. These points certainly "lessen the gap" then (if there was one) and make it much closer to the C++ situation then. >Also: The test is OpenSource and it is even part the gcc source tree - so if >you have the gcc sources handy you can just run the test yourself. > >>>Also, all compiler vendors will have a large number of >>>suplimentary tests of there own. These tend to include >>>propriatory code from customers, so usually aren't published. >> >> I'm sure. >> >> I'm also sure this is all workable, and to work well. >> As I'm sure it's not the only way to do it (not saying >> you said it was, just adding to the table). > >The important point that it puts more pressure on the vendors as most >customers won't consider a compiler which won't pass the test. I not convinced it puts "more pressure." I'm sure it puts some pressure but "different pressure". In the C++ world, customers do consider compilers which won't pass. And it's no secret that this is the case, even w/o all the specifics. (And I don't think this disses standardization efforts.) As just one counter-example, and I've leaving out many many details, but MS was not keeping up, and customer pressure came even w/o "official tests", and they reacted, to their credit. So the official tests need not be a requirement and one can get similar end results through alternative means. No one way is perfect. -- Greg Comeau / Comeau for the Mac? Stay tuned. Comeau C/C++ ONLINE ==> http://www.comeaucomputing.com/tryitout World Class Compilers: Breathtaking C++, Amazing C99, Fabulous C90. Comeau C/C++ with Dinkumware's Libraries... Have you tried it?