From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit Path: g2news2.google.com!news2.google.com!news.glorb.com!news.enother.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!backlog2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.brightview.co.uk!news.brightview.co.uk.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 17:18:38 -0500 From: Jon Harrop Subject: Re: Alternatives to C: ObjectPascal, Eiffel, Ada or Modula-3? Newsgroups: comp.lang.scheme,comp.lang.ada,comp.lang.functional,comp.lang.c++,comp.programming Followup-To: comp.programming Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 00:28:36 +0100 References: <2009a75f-63e7-485e-9d9f-955e456578ed@v37g2000prg.googlegroups.com> <7xskgbtcyr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Organization: Flying Frog Consultancy Ltd. User-Agent: KNode/0.10.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Message-ID: X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com X-Trace: sv3-1QfoMCu43pbV7+zCTuobqW2kMj8XhIXaKukL9l3SjuPLwBuHj5C0KZwVXwJxxe4r3utNKS4v81aXQht!HJqqSnt3wWgpHexQ0G6y5dZm/lSiMrZpEsrU7k1g8NKuEeTWl4Mac2QzMrQYv32b0x3p5QNH9GoT!e4k6ibkE/MeNbdssxseCEZC7 X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.39 Xref: g2news2.google.com comp.lang.scheme:6276 comp.lang.ada:7514 comp.lang.functional:2585 comp.lang.c++:48933 comp.programming:12235 Date: 2009-08-02T00:28:36+01:00 List-Id: Paul Rubin wrote: > frankenstein writes: >> Fact #1: We must forget about the language shootout page because it is >> and always has been a kinda like of Micky Mouse benchmark (any idot >> who thought he might make up for an excellent programmer posted crappy >> code and once posted it is forever in google's history and a lot of >> other idiots will use the result from the benchmark). RIP language >> shotout page. > > The shootout is reasonably informative when it's about languages that > have many active practitioners. If someone posts crappy slow code > that makes the language look bad for a while, someone else can come > along and post faster code. So there is ongoing competition between > GHC, Ocaml, C++ and so forth. It's only for the languages with fewer > practitioners (these can still be perfectly good languages) that the > early crappy submissions don't get improved regularly. No, I contributed dozens of optimized programs to the shootout only to have them rejected for subjective reasons because the benchmarks are poorly designed. Some of the benchmarks still on there have "deoptimized by Isaac Gouy" written in them, for example. Consequently, you cannot draw any useful conclusions about languages from it. -- Dr Jon D Harrop, Flying Frog Consultancy Ltd. http://www.ffconsultancy.com/?u