From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,
	REPLYTO_WITHOUT_TO_CC autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4
X-Google-Thread: 103376,2ff5c149712ec0eb
X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public,usenet
X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit
Path: 
 g2news1.google.com!news4.google.com!news.germany.com!newsfeed.utanet.at!newsfeed01.chello.at!newsfeed.arcor.de!newsspool1.arcor-online.net!news.arcor.de.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de>
Subject: Re: Ada Interfaces and the Liskov Substitution Principle
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
User-Agent: 40tude_Dialog/2.0.15.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Reply-To: mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de
Organization: cbb software GmbH
References: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0705232101220.20072@th.informatik.uni-mannheim.de>
 <1179953657.839272.160320@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
 <f32d9o$fi9$1@jacob-sparre.dk>
 <1179991769.376381.252010@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com>
 <12h6mi42jcha0.7f9vfsnihjwr$.dlg@40tude.net>
 <1180003336.1163.29.camel@kartoffel> <83abvs7sa9.fsf@hod.lan.m-e-leypold.de>
 <465aa5ba$0$23147$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>
 <qa3sb6w0a0n9.i2vpzirsrrfc.dlg@40tude.net>
 <465b6606$0$10188$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>
 <i3klun83mxpk.kwz6ot6mqpd1.dlg@40tude.net>
 <1180445634.5664.23.camel@kartoffel>
 <39viqigjwhrb$.gz67xvpinyjr.dlg@40tude.net>
 <465c9077$0$23135$9b4e6d93@newsspool1.arcor-online.net>
 <cb1jpulo7dok$.1voakie5wr69g.dlg@40tude.net>
 <1180531107.16197.30.camel@kartoffel>
 <w9mu1i6kf35l.1hzzhvo03fs5b.dlg@40tude.net>
 <1180611880.16197.59.camel@kartoffel>
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 09:37:06 +0200
Message-ID: <cq8h8nf3efna$.b8bgpgt0snnf.dlg@40tude.net>
NNTP-Posting-Date: 01 Jun 2007 09:34:46 CEST
NNTP-Posting-Host: 535c3f1e.newsspool4.arcor-online.net
X-Trace: 
 DXC=;GGm^R@R[NPPU8j_I0DN6_4IUK<Cl32<Q4Fo<]lROoRQ4nDHegD_]RURRbJ`f]JBnWDNcfSJ;bb[UFCTGGVUmh?TLK[5LiR>kgROcjg72DBc^]
X-Complaints-To: usenet-abuse@arcor.de
Xref: g2news1.google.com comp.lang.ada:16016
Date: 2007-06-01T09:34:46+02:00
List-Id: <comp.lang.ada>

On Thu, 31 May 2007 13:44:40 +0200, Georg Bauhaus wrote:

> I'm saying that programmers do not necessarily write programs
> with mathematical structures in their head, but they still succeed.
> I don't call that unconscious mathematics, because we can't know
> that. It doesn't matter. When they write,
>   a := a + 1;
> the may not be thinking about a commutative group of integers,

It is no matter what they think, it matters what they write.

[...]
> but we might also ignore successful solutions
> just because
> (1) they do not usually appear on math radar screens, or 
> (2) contradict beliefs in known models (see co/contravariance).

No solution is successful if not based on technological / scientific basis
which would make "success" reproducible. That's apart from the question of
measurement of "success".

We don't talk about consuming programs, but about designing them.

>> No, the point is that they cannot be mapped (implemented), this is why
>> mathematics is necessary to describe what is going on, because no machine
>> would be sufficient for that.
> 
> But what is actually going on in /dev/random?

Realization of a random variable.

-- 
Regards,
Dmitry A. Kazakov
http://www.dmitry-kazakov.de