From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, REPLYTO_WITHOUT_TO_CC autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Thread: 103376,e55245590c829bef X-Google-NewGroupId: yes X-Google-Attributes: gida07f3367d7,domainid0,public,usenet X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit Path: g2news1.google.com!news4.google.com!feeder.news-service.com!216.196.110.146.MISMATCH!border3.nntp.ams.giganews.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.ams.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.ams.giganews.com!nntp.bt.com!news.bt.com.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2010 18:52:27 -0500 From: Brian Drummond Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: _Type vs no _Type Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2010 00:01:52 +0000 Reply-To: brian@shapes.demon.co.uk Message-ID: References: <82zktq4n9b.fsf_-_@stephe-leake.org> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com X-AuthenticatedUsername: NoAuthUser X-Trace: sv3-IWO6pev2HJ7RFMyDcI7QJGHHB151e4YVhrwdQ66YtuoqIFJLFFyHlyAUa7ex+n4KK5hmcluGg/qmZYs!EC0ti5ZZiY4Q5/AukjMYy8PoyK2d+UKtrujIthGLdoD4C1oxgkzBTW+75oOGkP0Iy6uF7a3gQ3k0!TMoY X-Complaints-To: abuse@btinternet.com X-DMCA-Complaints-To: abuse@btinternet.com X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 X-Original-Bytes: 3127 Xref: g2news1.google.com comp.lang.ada:15358 Date: 2010-11-07T00:01:52+00:00 List-Id: On Sat, 06 Nov 2010 17:10:11 -0400, Robert A Duff wrote: >Jeffrey Carter writes: > >> On 11/05/2010 04:09 PM, Robert A Duff wrote: >>> Jeffrey Carter writes: >>> >>>> ...Ada is a S/W-engineering >>>> language, and most developers are not S/W engineers. >>> >>> Well, maybe, but how many people will be attracted to >>> Ada by sneering at them for being less than true >>> engineers? >> >> I don't want to attract coders to Ada. > >I reject your dichotomy -- S/W engineers vs. mere coders. >There's certainly a wide spectrum of competence among >programmers (why, at least half of them are below average!), >but many of whom you disparagingly call "coders" are educable. Let me echo my agreement on this. I was educated on Algol-W and transitioned to Modula-2 in the 1980s, via another of Wirth's languages.. (Ada was not really "available" at the time.) More recently I have been using C and C++, but I do not consider I have ever really learned them, and during those years I definitely lapsed into "coding". Doing what was expedient, knowing it wasn't good, and feeling encouraged by the language to do so (or sometimes, punished when I tried to do better!) Coming to Ada has been - not so much learning (yet, though there are parts of the language I haven't touched yet) as healing. I'm starting to think I may be on the road back to SW engineering. (Interestingly enough, it's also having an effect, probably positive, on the C++ I still have to write) - Brian