From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM, LOTS_OF_MONEY autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Received: by 2002:a24:f6c3:: with SMTP id u186-v6mr1772676ith.15.1529140461636; Sat, 16 Jun 2018 02:14:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 2002:a9d:296a:: with SMTP id d97-v6mr194983otb.1.1529140461520; Sat, 16 Jun 2018 02:14:21 -0700 (PDT) Path: eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.mixmin.net!feeds.phibee-telecom.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed8.news.xs4all.nl!85.12.16.70.MISMATCH!peer03.ams1!peer.ams1.xlned.com!news.xlned.com!peer03.am4!peer.am4.highwinds-media.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!d7-v6no2736242itj.0!news-out.google.com!c20-v6ni1689itc.0!nntp.google.com!d7-v6no2736241itj.0!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2018 02:14:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=92.186.158.92; posting-account=xd0OrwoAAABQUGXxWZdZWv6VwPFSqa1J NNTP-Posting-Host: 92.186.158.92 References: <5e86db65-84b9-4b5b-9aea-427a658b5ae7@googlegroups.com> <878t7u1cfm.fsf@nightsong.com> <8a65f8ff-4a75-43f2-884c-6872780f7ea8@googlegroups.com> <771e8e35-b71a-499d-a0fe-bb0df1de22ab@googlegroups.com> <92741619.550509671.540055.laguest-archeia.com@nntp.aioe.org> <81e22064-bb0e-4e0b-982a-c17a2cad5977@googlegroups.com> <1b03e4ff-daf1-4c13-84ef-13aec1ba96e9@googlegroups.com> User-Agent: G2/1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Ada Successor Language From: jm.tarrasa@gmail.com Injection-Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2018 09:14:21 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Received-Bytes: 4224 X-Received-Body-CRC: 1105639105 Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org comp.lang.ada:53134 Date: 2018-06-16T02:14:21-07:00 List-Id: =20 > AFAIK, there's no other "similar product" to that degree. For me, Visual Studio is more stable and advanced that GPS or any Ada toolc= hain. I don't know what has Rational, but I find Visual Studio impressing. >What is really interesting though is the statement "the price was quickly = covered by the gains in productivity" -- this means the utility in ONLY pro= ductivity was enough to quickly pay for itself. It looks that nobody can answer how much is a seat of Rational (and that is= scaring). I've heard about 15.000$, but I can't confirm or deny it. If I'm= doing projects of 10 millions dollars, 15.000 may be acceptable. If I'm do= ing 50.000 100.000$ projects, it is not. So, maybe there is one of the answers of why Ada is not more popular. Only = deep pockets and really big project can use Ada at its full power. > are actually *different* -- this means that stupid things like 'style', "= tabs vs. spaces" and other formatting elements are flagged as 'changes' com= pletely apart from any semantic alteration. (This means that, within such s= ource-control, there can be many "false positives" when you're looking at a= change-log... Formatting and styles *are changes*. In fact I make commits to correct styl= e. Maybe editors should store source in a compact format and reflow it on t= he fly when you load the file, so, if you load with a classic editor a sour= ce of Ada,C,C++, etc, you would only see a very long line. But until such = editors become the mainstream, changes in formatting and style are not fals= e positives, are changes that must be committed. >=20 > This sort of integration is something that isn't all that common in the p= laces I've worked, which usually go with various individual tools. Most IDEs integrate Editor (with completion, refactoring, jumping easily fr= om a definition to another, stubs, help and a few things), some kind of fil= es of project and a Debugger. There are other tools (Version control, code analyzers etc) Does integratin= g such tools boots productivity a 20%? I don't think so. So, if the environ= ment is a 5% of prize of the project or a 20% of the project, the level of = integration may be secondary.