From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM, FREEMAIL_REPLY autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,5cb36983754f64da X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2004-02-11 04:15:11 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news2.google.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.vt.edu!msunews!not-for-mail From: "Chad R. Meiners" Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: No call for Ada (was Re: Announcing new scripting/prototyping language) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 07:13:44 -0500 Organization: Michigan State University Message-ID: References: <20040206174017.7E84F4C4114@lovelace.ada-france.org> <54759e7e.0402071124.322ea376@posting.google.com> <2460735.u7KiuvdgQP@linux1.krischik.com> <54759e7e.0402081525.50c7adae@posting.google.com> <54759e7e.0402091826.2847e0c@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: arctic.cse.msu.edu X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:5428 Date: 2004-02-11T07:13:44-05:00 List-Id: "Jerry Coffin" wrote in message news:MPG.1a93b6629128b2fc989c8b@news.clspco.adelphia.net... > In article , > jimmaureenrogers@att.net says... > > [ ... ] > > > I think you will find, if you look into hard real-time systems, > > that performance is critical. > > I've looked. It's usually not. For real-time systems, the primary > requirement is usually for absolute predictability, NOT for maximum > performance. Performance can be critical while not being the primary requirement. > > While it is true that GNAT has > > produced relatively slow executables in the past, those same > > executables are often 3 to 5 times faster than early Java > > programs. I know that current JVMs have improved performance > > significantly. I speak of JVMs from around the year 2000. > > Using Java as a standard of comparison is a tacit admission of a major > problem. He was talking about the GNAT of the past gone by (most likely predating 1996), when the compiler was still young and produced relatively slow code. > > Other > > Ada compilers produce faster code than GNAT. Sometimes you get > > what you pay for. (GNAT is a free compiler in the GNU compiler > > chain). > > The last time I checked, GNAT uses the same back-end as the other GNU > compilers, so if it doesn't produce as good of code, it's a strong > indication of a performance problem in the language proper. You should make sure that you are comparing the same back end version for each compiler. For instance GNAT 3.15p uses the gcc 2.8.1 backend for stability reasons. > Though I don't work with as many Ada programmers on as regular a basis, > it appears to me that many do more or less the opposite: it's so widely > assumed that the compiler will catch almost all errors, that many > blithely assume that almost anything that compiles MUST be correct. At > the same time, execution speed has been perceived as a problem often > enough that many knowingly and intentionally subvert type-checking and > such, on the assumption that it's necessary to get the speed they think > they need to be competitive. However, from my personal experience it appears to me that MOST Ada programmers don't suffer from such unwise beliefs. (Many Ada programmers could be as little as one; Most Ada programmers implies the majority) > Without trying to take this too far, the result is that in _many_ cases, > what are widely perceived as strengths or weaknesses of particular > languages often end up being almost exactly the opposite of what's > really the case. In the end, nearly all the factors being discussed > depend far more on the programmer than the language, so complacency is > common but rarely justified. Of course you need a competent and vigilant programmer; however, language design does affect the effectiveness of this programmer so it does not just boil down to finding good programmers. -CRM