From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: f4fd2,23202754c9ce78dd X-Google-Attributes: gidf4fd2,public X-Google-Thread: fac41,15edb893ef79e231 X-Google-Attributes: gidfac41,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,15edb893ef79e231 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: 114809,15edb893ef79e231 X-Google-Attributes: gid114809,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2002-01-22 18:26:09 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!cyclone.bc.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!enews.sgi.com!news.xtra.co.nz!newsfeed01.tsnz.net!news02.tsnz.net!bruce From: Bruce Hoult Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp,comp.lang.ada,comp.lang.eiffel,comp.lang.smalltalk Subject: Re: True faiths ( was Re: The true faith ) References: <%njZ7.279$iR.150960@news3.calgary.shaw.ca> <3c36fbc5_10@news.newsgroups.com> <4idg3u40ermnp682n6igc5gudp7hajkea9@4ax.com> <76be8851.0201101909.9db0718@posting.google.com> <9jtu3u8cq92b05j47uat3412tok6hqu1ki@4ax.com> <3C3F8689.377A9F0F@brising.com> <3219936759616091@naggum.net> <3C483CE7.D61D1BF@removeme.gst.com> <7302e4fa4a.simonwillcocks@RiscPC.enterprise.net> <3C4D9B03.60803@mail.com> <3C4DE2F3.9020904@mail.com> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:26:12 +1300 NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.79.84.103 X-Complaints-To: abuse@tsnz.net X-Trace: news02.tsnz.net 1011752768 203.79.84.103 (Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:26:08 NZDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:26:08 NZDT Organization: TelstraSaturn Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.lisp:25024 comp.lang.ada:19213 comp.lang.eiffel:5507 comp.lang.smalltalk:18500 Date: 2002-01-23T15:26:12+13:00 List-Id: In article <3C4DE2F3.9020904@mail.com>, Hyman Rosen wrote: > Bruce Hoult wrote: > > > Garbage collection has a *lot* to do with this problem! > > > > A large proportion of assignments in languages such as C++ are done > > merely in order to resolve the question of who owns an object and who > > is > > responsible for eventually deleting it. > > > > With GC available, objects are seldom copied with pointers to them > > being > > passed around instead. You don't care who "owns" the object, because > > it > > just magically goes away when all the pointers to it get forgotten. > > > You don't get to redefine the problem so that your favorite technique > becomes the solution. Yes you do. The aim is to solve the customer's problem. They don't give a damn whether you copy objects or pass them by reference. They don't even know what the options *mean*! -- programs are hard to analyse for correctness because of GOTOs. Solution: don't use them -- programs are hard to analyse for correctness because of destructive assignment. Solution: don't use assignment. -- programs are often buggy because of off-by-one errors in loop control. Solution: use implicit loops and/or mapping functions controlled by the size of the collection they are operating on. -- programs are often buggy because of errors in memory management. Solution: automate memory management.