From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=AC_FROM_MANY_DOTS,BAYES_00 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 1108a1,59ec73856b699922 X-Google-Attributes: gid1108a1,public X-Google-Thread: fdb77,5f529c91be2ac930 X-Google-Attributes: gidfdb77,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,583275b6950bf4e6 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: 11232c,59ec73856b699922 X-Google-Attributes: gid11232c,public X-Google-Thread: f43e6,899fc98b2883af4a X-Google-Attributes: gidf43e6,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2003-05-17 07:50:26 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!peernews-us.colt.net!newsfeed.news2me.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!stamper.news.atl.earthlink.net!harp.news.atl.earthlink.net!not-for-mail From: "Marin David Condic" Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.object,comp.lang.ada,misc.misc,comp.software-eng Subject: Re: Quality systems (Was: Using Ada for device drivers? (Was: the Ada mandate, and why it collapsed and died)) Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 10:45:53 -0400 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Message-ID: References: <9fa75d42.0304230424.10612b1a@posting.google.com> <9fa75d42.0305091549.48b9c5d9@posting.google.com> <7507f79d.0305121629.5b8b7369@posting.google.com> <9fa75d42.0305130543.60381450@posting.google.com> <9fa75d42.0305160453.29c0c4af@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: d1.56.bf.97 X-Server-Date: 17 May 2003 14:50:25 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.java.advocacy:64011 comp.object:63609 comp.lang.ada:37447 misc.misc:14258 comp.software-eng:19258 Date: 2003-05-17T14:50:25+00:00 List-Id: Well, I'm not going to argue the point. You believe based on some personal experience that it is only 2% to 3% of the errors that would be caught/fixed by Ada. My metrics collected over 10 years indicate that we got a factor of four decrease in defects by switching to Ada. There may be some domain differences or perhaps you believe that our team of programmers were all incompetent, but whatever the case, my scientific evidence fails to convince you. I can't possibly overcome that with more science or more argument. Believe what you like and I hope you work for my competitors. :-) MDC -- ====================================================================== Marin David Condic I work for: http://www.belcan.com/ My project is: http://www.jsf.mil/ Send Replies To: m c o n d i c @ a c m . o r g "Going cold turkey isn't as delicious as it sounds." -- H. Simpson ====================================================================== soft-eng wrote in message news:9fa75d42.0305160453.29c0c4af@posting.google.com... > > With professional programmers, the "type errors" are > very few anyway (I estimated 2-3% of all errors, > so if a bug-list has 100 items on it, and if more than > 2-3 are type-safety issues, I would worry about > programmer quality.) > > So the tradeoff is, possibly a bug or two caught > at compile time rather than during testing, versus > using a very large language that was created by fiat.