From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,583275b6950bf4e6 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: 11232c,59ec73856b699922 X-Google-Attributes: gid11232c,public X-Google-Thread: f43e6,899fc98b2883af4a X-Google-Attributes: gidf43e6,public X-Google-Thread: fdb77,5f529c91be2ac930 X-Google-Attributes: gidfdb77,public X-Google-Thread: 1108a1,59ec73856b699922 X-Google-Attributes: gid1108a1,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2003-05-16 15:20:32 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-ham1.dfn.de!news.uni-hamburg.de!cs.tu-berlin.de!uni-duisburg.de!not-for-mail From: Georg Bauhaus Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.object,comp.lang.ada,misc.misc,comp.software-eng Subject: Re: Quality systems Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 22:20:31 +0000 (UTC) Organization: GMUGHDU Message-ID: References: <9fa75d42.0304230424.10612b1a@posting.google.com> <9fa75d42.0305091549.48b9c5d9@posting.google.com> <7507f79d.0305121629.5b8b7369@posting.google.com> <9fa75d42.0305130543.60381450@posting.google.com> <5mmwa.65$dp4.60@read3.inet.fi> <9fa75d42.0305150600.72feef7f@posting.google.com> <9fa75d42.0305160625.3dbd359e@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: d2-hrz.uni-duisburg.de X-Trace: a1-hrz.uni-duisburg.de 1053123631 25498 134.91.1.15 (16 May 2003 22:20:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.uni-duisburg.de NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 22:20:31 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: tin/1.5.8-20010221 ("Blue Water") (UNIX) (HP-UX/B.11.00 (9000/831)) Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.java.advocacy:63963 comp.object:63583 comp.lang.ada:37413 misc.misc:14244 comp.software-eng:19245 Date: 2003-05-16T22:20:31+00:00 List-Id: In comp.lang.ada soft-eng wrote: : [in response to what the let-go management does when confronted : with "problematic programmers"] : Though once, when a bunch of Ph.D.s were trying to make things : happen contrary to the corporate culture by using hierarchical : leverage, the group was very quickly disbanded and placed in : separate positions (presumably so they could do less harm.) I might have misread the article, but I was under the impression that higher ranking management intervened to remove influence of some "architecture people" to let the programmer go on inventing macro support for an MS product. He seems not to have been a problem in the eyes of this part of management, so this part of managment intervened and "removed" a lower ranking part of "non-programmers". The question was about how they manage "problematic" programmers. According to a TV documentation about former long time MS employees, if you become a problem for management, management will issue one warning, and give you the freedom of correcting the problem yourself... And that is not exactly managing problematic situations in my view, it is removing the situations together with the peple involved. There is a saying, in German, about a bath and a child, and emptying the bath tub. Is that known in English? Consider that, seemingly, you are allowed to work as long as you like in MS buildings; one might point out that the smart management has no problem at all leading the way to burn-out. A Bill Gates publication about his view of computing business future adds further corroborations. Good old Benjamin Franklin. Are Gates and Balmer protestants, BTW? So there might be a premise for complete programming freedom: total engagement, with dismissal pending otherwise (that is, showing only non-total engagement, which is the usual healthy case in general, or isn't it?) They said, the avery age of programmers within MS is around 23 or 24 years. Usually, alcoholism starts later, family "duties" start later, "settlement" comes later. I'd like to know how they deal with that. My OT view, georg