From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,583275b6950bf4e6 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: f43e6,899fc98b2883af4a X-Google-Attributes: gidf43e6,public X-Google-Thread: fdb77,5f529c91be2ac930 X-Google-Attributes: gidfdb77,public X-Google-Thread: 1108a1,59ec73856b699922 X-Google-Attributes: gid1108a1,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2003-05-15 07:18:17 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!panix!panix2.panix.com!not-for-mail From: roy@panix.com (Roy Smith) Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.object,comp.lang.ada,comp.software-eng Subject: Re: Quality systems (Was: Using Ada for device drivers? (Was: the Ada mandate, and why it collapsed and died)) Date: 15 May 2003 10:18:15 -0400 Organization: PANIX -- Public Access Networks Corp. Message-ID: References: <9fa75d42.0304230424.10612b1a@posting.google.com> <9fa75d42.0305140436.5 NNTP-Posting-Host: panix2.panix.com X-Trace: reader1.panix.com 1053008296 15106 166.84.1.2 (15 May 2003 14:18:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 14:18:16 +0000 (UTC) Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.java.advocacy:63842 comp.object:63458 comp.lang.ada:37346 comp.software-eng:19200 Date: 2003-05-15T10:18:15-04:00 List-Id: Graham Perkins wrote: > My other principal usage experience is with Unix and > VAX-VMS. I suggest that both of those systems are > considerably better than MS-Windows, qualitatively. > Moreover, they were of extremely high quality from very > early on in their life. And you never had to double your > processor speed and memory size every two years to > keep up with the code bloat :-( Unix first escaped from Bell Labs in roughly 1977 (26 years ago). At the time it was running on pdp-11's with 64 kbytes of memory. If you double 64k every 2 years for 26 years, you end up with 512 Meg, which isn't too far off from what you need to run Unix today. My newest Unix box is a Macintosh running OS-X, for which Apple recommends a minimum of 128 Meg. Of course, that 128 Meg is for a personal workstation; that 64k pdp-11 used to support a dozen users. The reason, of course, is code bloat. We've added networking, graphics, virtual memory, better file systems, threading, etc. These are good things and I wouldn't want to give them up. I'm also not sure I'd call the early Unix system "extremely high quality". Back in the pdp-11 days, we'd be happy if the system stayed up for a week before it crashed or needed to be rebooted. Kernel panics because the file system ran out of inodes?