From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=AC_FROM_MANY_DOTS,BAYES_00 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 1108a1,59ec73856b699922 X-Google-Attributes: gid1108a1,public X-Google-Thread: 103376,583275b6950bf4e6 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: fdb77,5f529c91be2ac930 X-Google-Attributes: gidfdb77,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2003-05-10 07:36:55 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!cyclone.bc.net!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.news2me.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!stamper.news.atl.earthlink.net!harp.news.atl.earthlink.net!not-for-mail From: "Marin David Condic" Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.object,comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Using Ada for device drivers? (Was: the Ada mandate, and why it collapsed and died) Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 10:36:20 -0400 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Message-ID: References: <9fa75d42.0304230424.10612b1a@posting.google.com> <3EA7E0E3.8020407@crs4.it> <9fa75d42.0304240950.45114a39@posting.google.com> <4a885870.0304291909.300765f@posting.google.com> <416273D61ACF7FEF.82C1D1AC17296926.FF0BFD4934A03813@lp.airnews.net> <9fa75d42.0305010621.55e99deb@posting.google.com> <9fa75d42.0305090937.2bbe1238@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: d1.56.b8.72 X-Server-Date: 10 May 2003 14:38:04 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.java.advocacy:63479 comp.object:63161 comp.lang.ada:37149 Date: 2003-05-10T14:38:04+00:00 List-Id: There were at least two formal studies I've seen comparing Ada and C. One was as close to a controlled scientific experiment as you can get with software development as I've ever seen. Both showed that when all other factors were held equal, Ada came out significantly more productive & less defective than C. In particular, it appeared that Ada got its best improvements against C when it came to realtime, embedded work. (Dr. McCormac's railroad experiments). This validates my own study, so I'm happy to rest with that conclusion. There are probably other studies of which I'm not aware. It would be highly unscientific to neglect what they demonstrate, but I'm sure that there are folks who will not be satisfied that this is the case even if you showed them 100 studies. When someone doesn't want to believe something, they will inevitably find reasons to do so. The problems Ada has encountered in gaining market acceptance don't have much to do with either lack of real productivity improvements nor with lack of technical merit. It has plenty more to do with the "all other things being equal" part. In the real world, all other things are seldom equal. When most RTOS's, support tools, embedded target hardware, prefabricated libraries, etc., are all oriented towards C, its tough to consider some other language because it lacks the same development leverage. If Ada wants to be competitive against C, C++, Java and others, it has to look to provide similar or more leverage than one gets with these other environments. In the mean time, I'll keep using Ada in my little world and, yes, we have kicked our competitor's butts using it. :-) MDC -- ====================================================================== Marin David Condic I work for: http://www.belcan.com/ My project is: http://www.jsf.mil/ Send Replies To: m c o n d i c @ a c m . o r g "Going cold turkey isn't as delicious as it sounds." -- H. Simpson ====================================================================== soft-eng wrote in message news:9fa75d42.0305090937.2bbe1238@posting.google.com... > "Marin David Condic" wrote in message news:... > > If you can indeed have improved productivity and reduced defects, > it stands to reason that your competitor will not be doing very > well versus you! > > Bottom lines do count. If time after time it so happened > that people using Ada out-competed the ones using C, > others would start taking notice. > > But in fact time after time it has failed to happen, and the only > successful cases in Ada usage come from the situations > where it was mandated and no competition existed at all, > and money was no object. If you have a business > like that, sure, use whatever language you like. > > Otherwise, it might be worthwhile looking carefully at > situation, and not just basing things on a study or two. > > Studies, in general, can prove all kinds of amazingly > interesting things. Sometimes even six before breakfast.