From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=AC_FROM_MANY_DOTS,BAYES_00, LOTS_OF_MONEY autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,3d6589e7b2c60444 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2003-05-08 04:23:57 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!cambridge1-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!bos-service1.ext.raytheon.com!cyclone.swbell.net!newsfeed1.easynews.com!easynews.com!easynews!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!stamper.news.atl.earthlink.net!harp.news.atl.earthlink.net!not-for-mail From: "Marin David Condic" Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: employment with ada Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 08:20:01 -0400 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Message-ID: References: <626e8ae.0305011636.5e899da3@posting.google.com> <4mo7bvc2n70k6eikm3muu2965nbo3m77ov@4ax.com> <3EB415CB.6D97B14D@adaworks.com> <1f3abv0c5majluvng6g19aheea80i63res@4ax.com> <3EB5BC52.99E7C75E@adaworks.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: d1.56.b4.d3 X-Server-Date: 8 May 2003 11:23:57 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:37061 Date: 2003-05-08T11:23:57+00:00 List-Id: Richard Riehle wrote in message news:3EB5BC52.99E7C75E@adaworks.com... > > Au contraire. In this case, the focus is to build the best quality aircraft > possible. Knowing the engineers at LMCO as I do, I have not doubt > they will do everything possible to do just that, regardless of what > programming language they are required to use. > Keep in mind also that LMCO has to be extremely cost-conscious on the JSF program. The DoD is looking at a base sticker price on the ATF in excess of $200m a pop (IIRC - it is at least a really big impressive number). When they went for the JSF, one of the goals was to make sure that the price on the showroom floor would be a lot more affordable. That is probably a significant factor in the selection of components and tools for the avionics. Consider that they want to have a lot of flexibility in choosing processors for various avionics boxes. If you determined in advance that you wanted to use Ada, you might have a rather limited selection of processors. So you want to use some processor that will save you cost in box X but there is no Ada compiler and what are you going to do? Choose a more expensive part? Pay someone to retarget their compiler? Program that box in some other language that is now different from everything else you are doing? Any direction you go has potential cost increases. One might argue "Ada saves you costs in long term maintenance..." I agree, but how big a number is that. Is it big enough to overcome the startup costs involved in buying or building all of the surrounding tools you need that might be more readily available and cheaper if you selected C? Is it a big enough number that it overcomes the time value of money factors? What are the costs involved in supporting a multiple language environment if I find I can't do the whole thing in Ada? There are a lot of factors that go into the economic decisions about the tools selected for a job like this. The answers aren't always obvious. The thing to remember is that the JSF buyer is being very price sensitive so the engineers have to try to optimize "Cheap" in the development of this plane. I'd be inclined to give them the benefit of a doubt on this one since they certainly had to back up their case with some variety of cost studies. I believe Ada *can* be a cost saving technology, but it is not the *only* cost saving technology. Sometimes C has far more development leverage to bring to market and Ada doesn't seem to be focused on meeting that challenge. MDC -- ====================================================================== Marin David Condic I work for: http://www.belcan.com/ My project is: http://www.jsf.mil/ Send Replies To: m c o n d i c @ a c m . o r g "Going cold turkey isn't as delicious as it sounds." -- H. Simpson ======================================================================