From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=AC_FROM_MANY_DOTS,BAYES_00 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,3d6589e7b2c60444 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2003-05-06 05:24:07 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!sn-xit-03!sn-xit-01!sn-xit-08!supernews.com!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!stamper.news.atl.earthlink.net!harp.news.atl.earthlink.net!not-for-mail From: "Marin David Condic" Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: employment with ada Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 08:07:39 -0400 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Message-ID: References: <626e8ae.0305011636.5e899da3@posting.google.com> <4mo7bvc2n70k6eikm3muu2965nbo3m77ov@4ax.com> <3EB415CB.6D97B14D@adaworks.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: d1.56.bb.cc X-Server-Date: 6 May 2003 12:07:54 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:37005 Date: 2003-05-06T12:07:54+00:00 List-Id: Simon Wright wrote in message news:x7vof2hjoq4.fsf@smaug.pushface.org... > > Does realtime, embedded work involve GUIs? databases? > Not often, but if there were a few million Ada developers out there making PC apps with Ada, nobody would object that they can't find Ada developers. If there were a few million Ada/PC developers with good quality compilers and support tools on the PC backing them up, people might be tempted to start doing realtime/embedded work in Ada where they had a PC SBC as their target. If Ada compiler vendors were making money hand over fist selling PC-based compilers, they might be tempted to retarget them to other boards for embedded use. Success breeds success. At this point, I don't think it would be easy or likely to get Ada adopted in most embedded efforts because of market resistance and lack of adequate environments to do the job. Its a lot easier to get it adopted in areas with less resistance and less demand for specific tools. You don't need nearly as much to get a PC based app up and running so Ada doesn't have to provide as much to be competitive in that market. If you got acceptance in one market, its easier to then bleed over into other markets. Start with what is achievable and work from there. > How much safety-critical embedded avionics software gets written in C? > > Lots. We don't help ourselves if we delude ourselves into thinking that Ada is some giant success out there in some invisible market that if only we could lift the veil we'd see a multi-billion dollar business. Anything can be a "success" if we define "success" narrowly enough. (Q: How many engine controls for STOVL aircraft, designed in Palm Beach Gardens, Florida are programmed in Ada? A: All of them. Does this make a difference to most Ada developers looking for work?) Even if Ada had *all* the safety-critical embedded avionics software development in the US, this wouldn't be a really big market compared to the overall software market. Since that market is small, the people making decisions about where to go with tools, etc., get driven by costs and other factors to go use what the rest of the world is using. Arguing that Ada is "better" for this kind of work is interesting, but not compelling. Quality of the language is only one factor that has to be considered. Making Ada more of a market force that didn't leave us poor slobs building engine controls in P.B.G., FL feeling like we were off in a desert somewhere might make the decision to use Ada an easier one. I'm a big fan of Ada, but I think it needs to get off bottom-dead-center in *some* market and start dominating it if it is going to have good long-term prospects. "Realtime/Embedded" as a market looks like a tough nut to crack and the Ada vendors don't have the budget to attempt to address it on speculation. Some subset of the PC app market would be an easier target and I think that developing libraries, GUIs, databases, etc., to suit some niche in there would be a lot more doable. MDC -- ====================================================================== Marin David Condic I work for: http://www.belcan.com/ My project is: http://www.jsf.mil/ Send Replies To: m c o n d i c @ a c m . o r g "Going cold turkey isn't as delicious as it sounds." -- H. Simpson ======================================================================