From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Received: by 10.43.151.129 with SMTP id ks1mr15504767icc.26.1432886112753; Fri, 29 May 2015 00:55:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.140.42.195 with SMTP id c61mr99471qga.11.1432886112625; Fri, 29 May 2015 00:55:12 -0700 (PDT) Path: eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!mx02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.glorb.com!h15no36435igd.0!news-out.google.com!k20ni44998qgd.0!nntp.google.com!z60no4417783qgd.0!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Date: Fri, 29 May 2015 00:55:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=105.237.62.132; posting-account=orbgeAkAAADzWCTlruxuX_Ts4lIq8C5J NNTP-Posting-Host: 105.237.62.132 References: <127b004d-2163-477b-9209-49d30d2da5e1@googlegroups.com> <59a4ee45-23fb-4b0e-905c-cc16ce46b5f6@googlegroups.com> <46b2dce1-2a1c-455d-b041-3a9d217e2c3f@googlegroups.com> User-Agent: G2/1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Build language with weak typing, then add scaffolding later to strengthen it? From: jan.de.kruyf@gmail.com Injection-Date: Fri, 29 May 2015 07:55:12 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Xref: news.eternal-september.org comp.lang.ada:26051 Date: 2015-05-29T00:55:12-07:00 List-Id: On Friday, May 29, 2015 at 12:46:28 AM UTC+2, Randy Brukardt wrote: > than just ignoring them. Based on my experience, I think a language stand= ard=20 > with 17 pages is about 90% hole (unless, of course, the language doesn't= =20 > actually do anything). Yes, the 17 pages say that things have been left unsaid, but the compiler s= topped any adventures. Perhaps it was assumed known in those days, at least in Zurich, that you do= the job properly or not at all?=20 >=20 > I'd think it's getting close to time to start over with Ada, not because = of=20 > any major problem, but simply the accumulation of cruft. The problem is t= hat=20 > if you think its hard to convince people to use Ada with all of its track= =20 > record, try doing that with a new language with no record. So I don't thi= nk=20 > there would be much of a market for that. >=20 > Randy. Yes . . . and then No. A telling sign is that Ada has not forked yet. That is either a sign of the= great wisdom of the Ada high priests, or it does not evoke dreams . . . I would say that we could do with a 100 or 200 page "Ada language report" f= or the kids that have not learned how to read in this modern age. Otherwise I like to observe that a 'language X' program from the nineties n= ormally does not compile anymore on Gcc. You have to fix the changes in tec= hnology first; and please spare me the reasons why, I know about it. But Al= so in Ada ways of doing things change slowly over time. So I'd say that we could have a compiler switch if needed once the cruft ha= s been identified (new laguage war. . . ) Two practical observations worth their own thread perhaps: In the thread about the shortest path through a task Simon came up with som= e number for interrupt latency in Ravenscar that horrifies me. Surely the o= bject of the exercise of having interrupts at all is defeated by now, At le= ast in my application. (High speed motion control) -- In the example kernel module in the pegasoft book Ken does the following: ------------------------ -- Kernel Calls procedure Printk( s : string ); pragma import( C, printk, "printk" ); . . Printk("Hello,World!" & Character'val(10) & character'val(0)); . . ------------------------- This is off course a highly irreligious way of doing things. So I set out to do it the proper way via Interfaces.C and what,what. In the end after many lines of converting Ada string to C string, I could o= nly point out to myself that at least I now had unchecked conversions and S= ystem.Addresses. So then, how do I assign a value to these observations, what is the lesson = to be applied next time over? cheers, j.