From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,60e2922351e0e780 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2003-11-04 09:52:21 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!news2.google.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!wn13feed!worldnet.att.net!207.35.177.252!nf3.bellglobal.com!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Warren W. Gay VE3WWG" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Clause "with and use" References: <3FA2CDCB.500F4AF0@fakeaddress.nil> <3FA3B412.AF3BEB96@fakeaddress.nil> <3FA50083.10709@noplace.com> <3FA777E9.4030605@noplace.com> In-Reply-To: <3FA777E9.4030605@noplace.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 12:37:38 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.96.223.163 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sympatico.ca X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1067967430 198.96.223.163 (Tue, 04 Nov 2003 12:37:10 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 12:37:10 EST Organization: Bell Sympatico Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:2052 Date: 2003-11-04T12:37:38-05:00 List-Id: Marin David Condic wrote: > It always "sounds reasonable" - but is it backed up with any *data*? I > believe the claim because it is reasonable, but obviously, there are > folks who think that "economy of expression" is the bees knees. Hence > the strong devotion to cryptic C programming. If you seek to persuade > that crowd, some data to back up the claim would help. > > MDC What I have observed here at least, is that while it has been shown and demonstrated time and time again, that such-and-such an engineering approach such as developing readable and maintainable code is a good thing, you still only hear the programmer say "I want X anyway". The problem as I see it, is the programmer too often is selfish in what HE wants, and so getting the job done quickly and with the minimum effort, is the only noise that you hear above the din. Yet the END-OWNER of the software that is being developed, has different goals, including the cost of maintenance and readability (to save time ($) for that next poor programmer that must jump into the code). The problem is that the programer usually is in the position of making that choice -- not the end owner, unless the owner has specific processes in place to prevent otherwise. THE GOOD THING ABOUT Ada, is that in large part, it forces a more readable style on the code. As someone else posted here, you don't see any Ada obfuscated code contests given for Ada, although I am sure it can be done ;-) Where this division gets blurred is when the developer and the owner are one: then the tendancy seems to be to favour the developer, unless the developer is well disciplined. I personally think it is necessary to keep encouraging the programmers to think about more than their own convenience. This is what much of the += ballyhoo is all about. -- Warren W. Gay VE3WWG http://home.cogeco.ca/~ve3wwg