From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, REPLYTO_WITHOUT_TO_CC autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Thread: 103376,3d76796391769899 X-Google-NewGroupId: yes X-Google-Attributes: gida07f3367d7,domainid0,public,usenet X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII Path: g2news2.google.com!news4.google.com!feeder.news-service.com!85.214.198.2.MISMATCH!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Nicholas Collin Paul de Gloucester Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: Improving the first contact with Ada (was: GCC conflict on Ubuntu for mixed Ada/C++ project) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 13:29:58 +0100 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Message-ID: References: <41d3829e-286d-4894-9140-31343bfa75ac@o12g2000vba.googlegroups.com> <82y6fgxncs.fsf@stephe-leake.org> <82aarux3g3.fsf@stephe-leake.org> <2da7ba0b-0c45-4c7b-a523-b3438e43212a@j27g2000vbp.googlegroups.com> <87k4qsapgr.fsf_-_@ludovic-brenta.org> <096e5f19-ed4d-4c02-b889-88856ac0d5c7@5g2000yqz.googlegroups.com> Reply-To: Nicholas Collin Paul de Gloucester Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="0-1145433011-1278419415=:20518" Injection-Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 12:29:45 +0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: mx03.eternal-september.org; posting-host="kheEuXGHhE2Z5eF1gAST+A"; logging-data="27653"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18kw8LJ9mJX1jNZwcjHM2lPU9vQkwPXn/yluLUAOGQ2SQ==" User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (LRH 1167 2008-08-23) In-Reply-To: <096e5f19-ed4d-4c02-b889-88856ac0d5c7@5g2000yqz.googlegroups.com> Cancel-Lock: sha1:44Yogtb2GxIhoVim4OKyL6S2uW0= X-X-Sender: Colin_Paul@64bit-RedHat-Enterprise-Linux6beta Xref: g2news2.google.com comp.lang.ada:13194 Date: 2010-07-06T13:29:58+01:00 List-Id: This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --0-1145433011-1278419415=:20518 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE I do not have time to follow this thread, but the quoted post made me say to an outsider earlier than I was going to that trying to install an Ada compiler would be a good idea. An excerpt of a report of how this was not accomplished is quoted at the end of this post. On Sun, 13 Jun 2010, zeta_no sent: |--------------------------------------------------------------------------= | |"On May 24, 6:45=A0pm, Ludovic Brenta wrote: = | | = | |> Which tutorials specifically did you use and which ones were bad? =A0How= | |> would you suggest improving them? = | |> = | |> Also, do you actually _learn_ anything in tutorials? =A0I mean, do you = | |> learn the underlying concepts, the basic knowledge that empowers you, or= | |> do you only skim the surface of things and remain dependent on "experts"= | |> to guide you? = | | = | |I should not point anyone by referring directly to their tutorials, = | |but let say a came across a least 3 tutorials about concurrency = | |programming with Ada that falls short of providing meaningful insight = | |on the true capabilities of Ada in this field. They present task, = | |delays, guard etc but don't put all these concepts in 'imaging' = | |situations, which resumes the power of the tasking model. Those did = | |not referred to typical uses of Ada, real problem solving that would = | |enlighten its non naive usage. The offer for tutorials that presents = | |a classical introduction to Ada as being a general programming = | |language, with enhanced capabilities (tasking model, real-time annex = | |etc), is too important. Many like me would benefit from more = | |specialized tutorials, like let say a middle size embedded project, = | |covering simply, many or all the main concepts provided by Ada and = | |their sound usage. = | | = | |To be sure you understand my point here, I see this type of tutorial = | |as something that can be quite long and involving. Rarely you can = | |find that type of a document, that does not qualify as a book nor as a = | |quick and dirty tutorial, as being organized halfway between a master = | |thesis and a final year thesis. It treats a known subject (compared = | |with the master thesis), with solid knowledge and neat understanding = | |(compared with some final year thesis). These documents are great = | |starters to light up curiosity and understanding to then permit = | |austere books to sink in. = | | = | | = | |> It would be constructive if you could be more specific. =A0In particular= I| |> would be very interested in ideas on how to improve the first contact a = | |> newbie can have with Ada. = | | = | |Oh yes, I have ideas! = | | = | |1. From my searches, it seems most people active with Ada are = | |registered and composed article on Ada Programming (Wikibooks). Tell = | |me if I am wrong?" = | |--------------------------------------------------------------------------= | I do not believe that this is true. |--------------------------------------------------------------------------= | |"2. A stable Ada home should be enforced (it confuses the newbs not to = | |know where this month, this year you guys are)." = | |--------------------------------------------------------------------------= | Many members of the Ada community hate or are unpleasant to each other. |--------------------------------------------------------------------------= | |"[..] = | | = | |iv. In the beginner section, = | |a first tutorial for setting up Ada. One windows, one Linux. (if on = | |Linux GPS is crap, hide it, tutorial should be made to use emacs with = | |Ada) = | | = | | = | |> = | |> -- = | |> Ludovic Brenta." = | |--------------------------------------------------------------------------= | This is a major problem. The aforementioned outsider reported: !__________________________________________________________________________= ___________________________________________________________________________= ___________________________________________________________________________= ___________________________________________________________________________= ___________________________________________________________________________= ___________________________________________________________________________= ___________________________________________________________________________= ___________________________________________________________________________= _________________________! !"[..] = = = = = = = = ! ! = = = = = = = = ! !Let's start with this site: "***http://www.ada-europe.org/***". It has man= uals in the html format, which I haven't spotted the first time I checked i= t, but a .pdf version would be fine. A list of manuals published from sprin= ger can be found, but, at least at first sight I cannot find any reviews of= the book, as I do in ACCU. In fact, the site has a link to a reference man= ual in .pdf version, but when I try to download it... "Oops! This page appe= ars broken. HTTP 404 - File not found." = = ! ! = = = = = = = = ! !In this site a list of compilers can be found. Let's check the site: "***h= ttp://www.adacore.com/home/***". It is not obvious at first site that I mus= t pay for it. Apparently from the site "***http://www.adalog.fr/freeada1.ht= m***" I can download a free compiler. Let's see... No, but from there I can= reach a site: "***http://sourceforge.net/projects/gnuada/files/***" where = I can download a free compiler...I managed to download a compressed package= , but now what? The help isn't really there and I suspect I can only instal= l this compiler on Linux. If I have windows, I'm screwed...Ok, I've came ac= ross of four sites now...! ! = = = = = = = = ! !Ok, I give up...Let's try this one: "***http://www.adahome.com/***". I sho= uld not complain so much..."***http://www.adahome.com/Tutorials/Lovelace/lo= velace.htm***" seems to be a tutorial for Ada...but it assumes I already no= w something of other languages, which is not a problem if I had tomething t= o write the code on and compile it. = = = = ! ! = = = = = = = = ! !I do not know if this was what you expected. My problem is not buying a bo= ok, but as I told you the Glassborow's (C++) book assumes I know nothing. I= t is true that perhaps I coul download Quincy in the net, but he clearly te= lls me how tu use it and my only concern is the code. If I have an equivale= nt book about Ada, I won't mind buying it. I never thought of it, but perha= ps I can use Quincy to write Ada? I can try... = = = ! ! = = = = = = = = ! ![..]" = = = = = = = = ! !__________________________________________________________________________= ___________________________________________________________________________= ___________________________________________________________________________= ___________________________________________________________________________= ___________________________________________________________________________= ___________________________________________________________________________= ___________________________________________________________________________= ___________________________________________________________________________= _________________________! Yours sincerely, Nicholas Collin Paul de Gloucester --0-1145433011-1278419415=:20518--