From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,583275b6950bf4e6 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Thread: f43e6,899fc98b2883af4a X-Google-Attributes: gidf43e6,public X-Google-Thread: fdb77,5f529c91be2ac930 X-Google-Attributes: gidfdb77,public X-Google-Thread: 1108a1,59ec73856b699922 X-Google-Attributes: gid1108a1,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2003-05-13 07:48:53 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail From: dont_have_enough_spam@yahoo.com (Willard Thompson) Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.object,comp.lang.ada,comp.software-eng Subject: Re: Quality systems (Was: Using Ada for device drivers? (Was: the Ada mandate, and why it collapsed and died)) Date: 13 May 2003 07:48:52 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Message-ID: References: <9fa75d42.0304230424.10612b1a@posting.google.com> <9fa75d42.0305011727.5eae0222@posting.google.com> <17cd177c.0305072114.24f04783@posting.google.com> <9fa75d42.0305090612.261d5a5c@posting.google.com> <9fa75d42.0305091549.48b9c5d9@posting.google.com> <7507f79d.0305121629.5b8b7369@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.145.28.254 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1052837333 17418 127.0.0.1 (13 May 2003 14:48:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 May 2003 14:48:53 GMT Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.java.advocacy:63666 comp.object:63305 comp.lang.ada:37284 comp.software-eng:19151 Date: 2003-05-13T14:48:53+00:00 List-Id: "Anders Wirzenius" wrote in message news:... > "Willard Thompson" wrote in message news:7507f79d.0305121629.5b8b7369@posting.google.com... > > A good quality system or process is managing defects at every stage of > > the software development process. Requirement defects, design > > defects, etc. I would have to agree that many defects that are caught > > early and subsequently fixed early would be less costly overall and > > can lead to higher quality software systems. However, what happens > > when a big defect pops up after release? ...so much for quality. > > > > One big question that no one knows the exact answer to is how exactly > > does the software process quality lead to software product quality? > > The exact answer is hardly found in any production environment: software, hardware, serviceware, educationware, you name it. A > quality system certificate is nothing more than a paper stating that the production process includes some overhead routines that can > be said affecting the product quality, like you write: > > > We most certainly know that process quality affects product quality, > > that is obvious. To attempt to answer such a question, I think would > > require mountains of formal and rigorous process documentation over > > Not mountains, a few pages will do. The key issue is that, to avoid the "details hell", the process documentation should be made by > the foremen, not the workers. What is then between the overall process documentation and the details? That is called profession > skill (=individuals, but still human beings that may any time have a bad day and code an array bounds overflow ;-). Perhaps. However, to avoid the "details hell" regardless of who makes the documents, layers of abstraction need to be properly managed. You're right, it is a key issue. A few pages - actually the correct pages - from the mountain of information regarding a software system is key. By separating concerns, having distinct and easily identifiable boundaries and targeting what is relevant towards a problem, will reduce time complexity. Someone, made a post a few weeks ago, regarding how to define/identify these layers within specific contexts, environments, etc. and the more thought I give it, the more I think that individual is on to something. WILLARD_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_ |_|_|_|AT_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_ |_|_|_|_|BLETCHLEYPARK|_|_|_ |_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_DOT_|_ |_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|NET