From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 103376,a00006d3c4735d70 X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2004-02-28 09:34:08 PST Path: archiver1.google.com!news2.google.com!newsfeed2.dallas1.level3.net!news.level3.com!crtntx1-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.easynews.com!easynews.com!easynews!news.he.net!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!216.196.106.144!border2.nntp.sjc.giganews.com!border1.nntp.sjc.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local1.nntp.sjc.giganews.com!nntp.comcast.com!news.comcast.com.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 11:34:07 -0600 Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 12:34:06 -0500 From: "Robert I. Eachus" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada Subject: Re: In-Out Parameters for functions References: <4020C947.81A6D703@0.0> <1075907239.138068@master.nyc.kbcfp.com> <402232E9.3EE15B4B@0.0> <1075987360.225622@master.nyc.kbcfp.com> <40236C0B.E988E003@0.0> <1077634311.254581@master.nyc.kbcfp.com> <1077718871.47635@master.nyc.kbcfp.com> <54cp3095jmv8s17h63d4bjdus0tec7l7pt@jellix.jlfencey.com> <1077721343.481619@master.nyc.kbcfp.com> <1077727853.904323@master.nyc.kbcfp.com> <1077810250.28474@master.nyc.kbcfp.com> In-Reply-To: <1077810250.28474@master.nyc.kbcfp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.147.77.160 X-Trace: sv3-6vqbeKiw05jUfcKZAcHS8QlP+l/NqbKgXJbHoQWUal9ijVl+kCRcJ46NjeiFMp/mjUDtcMP3JuUQSND!7/1C9fIuQ9lCMdf3eQBIL6pQlyUWph+AMAw9yRj77/wPJ+5nLzuMTcslHiPswQ== X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-DMCA-Complaints-To: dmca@comcast.net X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.1 Xref: archiver1.google.com comp.lang.ada:5929 Date: 2004-02-28T12:34:06-05:00 List-Id: Hyman Rosen wrote: > Robert I. Eachus wrote: > >> Hyman Rosen wrote: >> >>> In any case, when I >>> said that a + b becomes "+"(a, b) and not "+"(b, a) >>> I was not "absolutely wrong" but "absolutely right". >> >> >> No, you were absolutely wrong as usual. The order of evaluation of >> the parameters to "+" is undefined whether the "+" is user defined or >> language defined. > > > Where did I say that the order of evaluation of the operands was > defined? V'G'H argued that the philosophy of Ada was that a + b > and b + a are the same. I pointed out that for user-defined "+", > when you write a + b, the function is called with a as the Left > operand and b as the Right, never the reverse. > > > I should stop wrestling with pigs. > > You are so eager to believe I am wrong about everything I say that > you are not reading what I say. Stop it. You're just going to annoy > the pig :-) No, it is trying to teach a pig to sing that annoys the pig. When you wrestle with pigs, you just get dirty, and the pig enjoys it. (Of course, if the pig is a pet and kept clean, the person doing the wrestling may stay clean and actually want the pig to enjoy it.) But this is not a discussion of ENGLISH semantics ;-) MY point, which apparently you missed, was not that Ada compilers are allowed to ignore the order of parameters (except of course with named notation). It is that you will find lots of places in the standard where order independent SEMANTICS occurs, for example in 13.7.1(7). In those cases the usual implementation (in this case of package System.Storage_Elements) will simplify things by using parameter flipping and pragma Inline. If we were to change the semantics of Ada to require left-to-right evaluation, what should be done with these functions, especially when they are in-lined? A workable rule probably could be written, but it is the sort of thing you have to look at with a proposal like yours. -- Robert I. Eachus "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." --Edmund Burke