From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on polar.synack.me X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Google-Thread: 103376,cbb5b0d14f503195,start X-Google-Attributes: gid103376,public X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit Path: g2news1.google.com!news1.google.com!news4.google.com!news.glorb.com!cycny01.gnilink.net!spamkiller.gnilink.net!gnilink.net!trnddc06.POSTED!20ae255c!not-for-mail Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada From: Anonymous Coward Subject: Working with incompetent adaists / unsafe typing war story User-Agent: slrn/0.9.7.4 (Linux) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 02:15:17 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.149.87.138 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: trnddc06 1140056117 141.149.87.138 (Wed, 15 Feb 2006 21:15:17 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 21:15:17 EST Xref: g2news1.google.com comp.lang.ada:2913 Date: 2006-02-16T02:15:17+00:00 List-Id: I'd like to start with a war story: Despite the lack of coding standard, Mr. Safety wrote a well constructed package that uses private types, then wrote some packages that use those types. After these packages all reach a mature and refined (and tested) state, another developer (Mr. Sloppy) finds that they need to use Mr. Safety's package, which requires private types in the interface. Mr. Sloppy refuses to work with private types. It's the typical anti-strong typing mentality, where the developer refuses to accept anything that might limit their power. Mr. Safety was forced to introduce support for duplicate public versions of these types to accommodate Mr. Sloppy's skill limitations; which obviously produced a sloppy free-for-all in the work product. The understanding that most s/w developers seem to have is that they design their own interfaces for packages they create, and users of that ada spec only have a say in whether it meets standards and requirements. I always bend to accommodate types that other developers require in their spec, because it's theirs. Maybe I'm wrong about what I think is typical. It was explained to me that interfaces are "shared" and are no more controlled by the author than the users of it. That story is just a sample of what I encounter too frequently in the Ada workforce. It seems a /majority/ of ada developers have no formal Ada training, and are primarily C developers who picked up the Ada syntax on the job. Consequently, ada principles are lost, and much of the ada code out there is only slightly safer than C code (but still safer primarily because even a poor Ada developer cannot write ambiguous code like they can in C). I've only worked on four or so workplace ada projects. The projects with elaborate coding standards produced substantially better code, but I think it was just chance that those projects also had Ada enthusiasts who used private types, as the coding standard did nothing to promote private typing. Do you folks encounter this frequently? And what's the solution? Management can never appreciate the benefits of concepts like type safety. Strong typing is incorrectly viewed as "academic" and counter to progress.